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Author Topic: ZNY - North Mountain  (Read 15751 times)
W3MAT
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« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2013, 03:16:18 PM »

You know, I worked on tracing that hum for the past two days and could not find it.  The only thing I noticed was when I unplugged the power cord feeding the laptop it would go away, plug it back in...hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.   After reading InterpreDemon's post about the Yagi I decided to do a real quick antenna change, since I just happened to have a Arrow Yagi in the radio room.  I took down the J-Pole, put up the Yagi, secured the coax, headed back in the radio room to check on my results and the first thing I noticed is the levels on the OddATC meters have dropped to almost nothing.... meaning the hum is gone!  Where it went, I haven't a clue, and I really don't care as long as it never comes back.  I did notice that reception, in my opinion, is much better.  The controller on 128.575 is still not full quieting, but much better, and like JetScan1 stated, 132.15 is 5x5.  Also, 123.625 has gotten stronger.  I do not know where that transmitter is, but is has to be to the east of me somewhere. 

JetScan1 wrote:
Interesting that the controller on 132.15 is noticeably stronger than the controllers on the other frequencies. I believe they are all transmitting from the same North Mountain location ? Except 124.900 and 127.725 that are from the Williamsport site ?

I also find this interesting.  The only thing I can figure is that possibly the antenna for 132.15 is at the top of the tower and the antenna for 128.575 hung mid-tower or lower.  I don't know, just a guess.
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JetScan1
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« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2013, 03:26:09 PM »

Quote
The only thing I can figure is that possibly the antenna for 132.15 is at the top of the tower and the antenna for 128.575 hung mid-tower or lower.  I don't know, just a guess.

I wonder how directional ATC transmitters are ? Maybe different transmitter power outputs ?

Anyway, reception sounds good, getting traffic climbing off PHL checking onto 124.625 at around 10000-12000 feet about 4x4, around 80 miles away. This radio is located in Williamsport right ? What type of scanner are you using ?
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W3MAT
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« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2013, 03:46:01 PM »

The scanner and yagi are located about four miles northwest of Mifflinburg, or about 20 air miles south and west of Williamsport.  I am about 3/4 the way up a hill, or ridge, which does help.  I've been listening for about an hour now, and am impressed with the reception of the Yagi.

I also noticed 121.325 just came alive shortly after 3:00pm. 

The scanner I'm using is a Uniden BC-95XLT
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W3MAT
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« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2013, 03:53:24 PM »

Just Google mapped my location to PHL...107.16 NM
Not bad...
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InterpreDemon
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« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2013, 05:48:27 PM »

Loon, yagi definitely better, and if you brew up a wide-band one it will be better for the spread of frequencies you are dealing with. I have a couple good models that I have built and that work very well, if you are interested.

Now, if you are able to get any of that 129.4 on the mountain up north, I'll give you the equipment for that one... commercial grade 129.65 2-el beam, GRR-23 receiver and windows box to send a 64k, low-latency tie-link over here and I'll add it to the 129.4 net I am trying to build. I have attached a pdf of that network.

In order to cover such a large area ARINC simulcast transmits from the locations indicated, each site with a slight frequency offset from its neighbors, and the airborne gear (running ARINC specs) has notch filters to eliminate the heterodyne. So, if a plane is up over Maine, your ground station will be transmitting even if out of range of IPT, and all I have to do is merge your signal via voting system with my ears down in Long Island (which pick up anything out to 250 miles at flight levels) which are linked here with a similar connection. The receivers are not squelched on site, the wide band audio just comes here and I employ a noise squelch and voting system, so the cleanest signal is the one that will go into the stream.
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Feed Purveyor:
KJFK ARINC
KHPN ATIS
(KJFK) NY DEP Liberty East
HF CAR-A  3455/5550/6577/8846/11396
HF ARINC LDOC  6640/8933
HF NY VOLMET  6604

Complaints should be addressed to: City Hall
InterpreDemon
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« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2013, 05:58:50 PM »

Loon, pay attention to the folks the weaker controller is talking to, I think you'll find he is talking to flights to the east, so he's probably got a directional array and you are on the back side of it. The fact that the others are banging now says you have done about all you can do for the time being until more listening data is analyzed. The next immediate chore is to get another radio and stream going because you've got a hot traffic site with enough reception capability for about four feeds, not counting ARINC. It's been a black hole out there for too long and I think your feeds will be in the top fifty pretty much permanently.
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Feed Purveyor:
KJFK ARINC
KHPN ATIS
(KJFK) NY DEP Liberty East
HF CAR-A  3455/5550/6577/8846/11396
HF ARINC LDOC  6640/8933
HF NY VOLMET  6604

Complaints should be addressed to: City Hall
InterpreDemon
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« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2013, 06:22:14 PM »

Yeah, I tuned in 128.575 and can get about half the aircraft over here in Stamford, which means the flights are to the east of North Mountain and that antenna is either on this (my) side of the tower or an array. Basically you can hear hand-offs from one side of the tower to the other between 128.575 and 132.15. The directivity needed to bring .575 up the 6-9db you'd need for DFQ would become a problem for omni coverage of the airborne transmissions, so it's not worth it even to a fanatic like me. It's solid, and that's all that counts.
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Feed Purveyor:
KJFK ARINC
KHPN ATIS
(KJFK) NY DEP Liberty East
HF CAR-A  3455/5550/6577/8846/11396
HF ARINC LDOC  6640/8933
HF NY VOLMET  6604

Complaints should be addressed to: City Hall
InterpreDemon
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« Reply #22 on: September 04, 2013, 07:27:43 PM »

The more I look at it, Loon, I think 28.575 is just a high-angle radiator in the usual FAA site configuration. The Milton sector coverage area, all high traffic, etc., would make that the best choice, and you're just too low, or in a weak lobe off the base of the antenna above you.
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Feed Purveyor:
KJFK ARINC
KHPN ATIS
(KJFK) NY DEP Liberty East
HF CAR-A  3455/5550/6577/8846/11396
HF ARINC LDOC  6640/8933
HF NY VOLMET  6604

Complaints should be addressed to: City Hall
JetScan1
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« Reply #23 on: September 04, 2013, 08:43:04 PM »

Loon,

Quote
The scanner and yagi are located about four miles northwest of Mifflinburg

So that would put you 33 nautical miles southwest of the North Mountain transmitter. Excellent reception of an ATC Center at that distance !

ZNY also (or used to?) have a transmitter at Joliet, which is 36 nautical miles southeast of your location. published frequencies used were 120.025 and 128.000, although in the last few years they appear to have been replaced by 133.175. Just curious if you can hear any controllers on 133.175 ? There is also the Philipsburg site, 42 nautical miles to the west of your location, on 132.875, any chance you can hear the controller on that one ?

Sorry for all the questions, don't worry about it if you are too busy.


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W3MAT
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« Reply #24 on: September 04, 2013, 09:05:42 PM »

No need to apologize... we don't know if we don't ask. 

I cannot hear the controller on 132.875, Phillipsburg is a bit to far.  I have tried 133.175 in the past with no luck, but I will give it a listen tomorrow and see if I can hear anything.  I have also tried to hear 132.2, again with no luck.  I believe that transmitter is in the neighborhood of Gettysburg.

Now I have a quick question.  I've been using Flightradar24 to monitor flights, but I just found another site, Plane Finder, which seems to be a little more accurate and up to date.  I believe there is about a five minute delay in flight time on Flightradar24.  Just curious...

Loon
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JetScan1
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« Reply #25 on: September 04, 2013, 10:08:16 PM »

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I've been using Flightradar24 to monitor flights, but I just found another site, Plane Finder, which seems to be a little more accurate and up to date.  I believe there is about a five minute delay in flight time on Flightradar24.  Just curious...

I don't use either one so I'm not really an expert on the differences. I know they both use a combination ADS-B (real time) and FAA data (5 min delay), but I haven't really compared the two.

As a reference when I'm monitoring I use Flight Explorer (Pilot Edition), it only uses the delayed FAA data, not ADS-B, so even though the position data is delayed I like it because it provides a very accurate depiction of ARTCC sector boundaries, nav aids, waypoints, and current routing.

http://www.flightexplorer.com/pilot/pilotEdition.aspx
 
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dave
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« Reply #26 on: September 05, 2013, 08:00:32 AM »

It is not uncommon for a given RCAG site to have some transmitters be stronger than others, even noticeably so.  I have seen cases where there is a bad or failing piece of coax, patch cable, or antenna.  It could also be an issue where a given antenna just happens to be in a null for the person trying to receive it.  Another possibility is one frequency being at one end of the band where the person trying to receive it may have an antenna optimized for the opposite end of the band.
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RonR
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« Reply #27 on: September 05, 2013, 08:29:12 AM »

Thanks for the 129.4, Loon, but I think it will be tough without a bigger magnet. Traffic will be rare, but if you hear phone patches and discussions about sick or unruly passengers, stuck lavatories and landing gear, you'll know you're getting it. In your area it will really light up when the wx is bad east as all these pilots discuss fuel and alternates with their dispatchers. I pick them up all the time from Long Island, as far out as Buffalo and south to Baltimore, but I don't get the ground side, which is simulcast from multiple locations (including LGA just 12 miles from my antenna), so you may actually hear the ground talking to a plane way out of range. That's why I am looking for a ground station I can merge.


Hey ID, I didn't know 129.4 simulcasts out of LGA!  My brother lives just two or three miles away from LGA by crow.  Not too long ago I was looking to get LGA GND and NY DEP 118.175 there but that plan never really was set in motion.  This would give me a reason to check it out again if you're interested...

Ron
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ZBW/ZNY/ZDC (JFK Area) #1
ZBW/ZNY/ZDC (JFK Area) #2
ZBW/ZNY/ZDC (JFK Area) #3
ZBW/ZNY/ZDC (JFK Area) #4
ZBW Boston Center (CLIPR32/HTO31)
ZBW Boston Center (DXR19/SOUTHIE49)
InterpreDemon
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« Reply #28 on: September 05, 2013, 10:34:00 AM »

Ron- Definitely interested, check it out.
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KJFK ARINC
KHPN ATIS
(KJFK) NY DEP Liberty East
HF CAR-A  3455/5550/6577/8846/11396
HF ARINC LDOC  6640/8933
HF NY VOLMET  6604

Complaints should be addressed to: City Hall
RonR
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« Reply #29 on: September 05, 2013, 10:48:10 AM »

OK, will do.
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ZBW Boston Center (CLIPR32/HTO31)
ZBW Boston Center (DXR19/SOUTHIE49)
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