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Author Topic: ZNY - North Mountain  (Read 31453 times)
JetScan1
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« Reply #25 on: September 04, 2013, 10:08:16 PM »

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I've been using Flightradar24 to monitor flights, but I just found another site, Plane Finder, which seems to be a little more accurate and up to date.  I believe there is about a five minute delay in flight time on Flightradar24.  Just curious...

I don't use either one so I'm not really an expert on the differences. I know they both use a combination ADS-B (real time) and FAA data (5 min delay), but I haven't really compared the two.

As a reference when I'm monitoring I use Flight Explorer (Pilot Edition), it only uses the delayed FAA data, not ADS-B, so even though the position data is delayed I like it because it provides a very accurate depiction of ARTCC sector boundaries, nav aids, waypoints, and current routing.

http://www.flightexplorer.com/pilot/pilotEdition.aspx
 
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dave
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« Reply #26 on: September 05, 2013, 08:00:32 AM »

It is not uncommon for a given RCAG site to have some transmitters be stronger than others, even noticeably so.  I have seen cases where there is a bad or failing piece of coax, patch cable, or antenna.  It could also be an issue where a given antenna just happens to be in a null for the person trying to receive it.  Another possibility is one frequency being at one end of the band where the person trying to receive it may have an antenna optimized for the opposite end of the band.
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RonR
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« Reply #27 on: September 05, 2013, 08:29:12 AM »

Thanks for the 129.4, Loon, but I think it will be tough without a bigger magnet. Traffic will be rare, but if you hear phone patches and discussions about sick or unruly passengers, stuck lavatories and landing gear, you'll know you're getting it. In your area it will really light up when the wx is bad east as all these pilots discuss fuel and alternates with their dispatchers. I pick them up all the time from Long Island, as far out as Buffalo and south to Baltimore, but I don't get the ground side, which is simulcast from multiple locations (including LGA just 12 miles from my antenna), so you may actually hear the ground talking to a plane way out of range. That's why I am looking for a ground station I can merge.


Hey ID, I didn't know 129.4 simulcasts out of LGA!  My brother lives just two or three miles away from LGA by crow.  Not too long ago I was looking to get LGA GND and NY DEP 118.175 there but that plan never really was set in motion.  This would give me a reason to check it out again if you're interested...

Ron
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Feed Provider:
ZBW/ZNY/ZDC (JFK Area) 1
ZBW/ZNY/ZDC (JFK Area) 2
ZBW/ZNY/ZDC (JFK Area) 3
ZBW/ZNY/ZDC (JFK Area) 4
ZBW (CLIPR32/HTO31)
ZBW (DXR19/SOUTHIE49)
KLGA Gnd
KLGA Dep
KLGA Twr
NY App (Liberty/North)
KLGA App (HAARP)
KLGA Del/ARINC/TCA
InterpreDemon
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« Reply #28 on: September 05, 2013, 10:34:00 AM »

Ron- Definitely interested, check it out.
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KJFK ARINC
KHPN ATIS
(KJFK) NY DEP Liberty East
HF CAR-A  3455/5550/6577/8846/11396
HF ARINC LDOC  6640/8933
HF NY VOLMET  6604

Complaints should be addressed to: City Hall
RonR
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« Reply #29 on: September 05, 2013, 10:48:10 AM »

OK, will do.
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ZBW/ZNY/ZDC (JFK Area) 1
ZBW/ZNY/ZDC (JFK Area) 2
ZBW/ZNY/ZDC (JFK Area) 3
ZBW/ZNY/ZDC (JFK Area) 4
ZBW (CLIPR32/HTO31)
ZBW (DXR19/SOUTHIE49)
KLGA Gnd
KLGA Dep
KLGA Twr
NY App (Liberty/North)
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JetScan1
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« Reply #30 on: September 05, 2013, 11:00:55 AM »

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I also noticed 121.325 just came alive shortly after 3:00pm.

I notice this morning (10:30 EDT) they have 121.325 turned on and simulcasting with 132.175 (all aircraft on 132.175), yesterday it was turned off when the sectors were merged.

 

   
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RonR
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« Reply #31 on: September 05, 2013, 06:13:24 PM »

Ron- Definitely interested, check it out.

I was planning on going there tomorrow to check it out but just remembered he's on vacation and won't be back until next week.  Bummer, I'll have to wait until then...

Ron
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Feed Provider:
ZBW/ZNY/ZDC (JFK Area) 1
ZBW/ZNY/ZDC (JFK Area) 2
ZBW/ZNY/ZDC (JFK Area) 3
ZBW/ZNY/ZDC (JFK Area) 4
ZBW (CLIPR32/HTO31)
ZBW (DXR19/SOUTHIE49)
KLGA Gnd
KLGA Dep
KLGA Twr
NY App (Liberty/North)
KLGA App (HAARP)
KLGA Del/ARINC/TCA
InterpreDemon
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« Reply #32 on: September 05, 2013, 08:03:53 PM »

Ron, the transmissions are so infrequent I recommend you just leave a scanner there and record it with VOX controlled software like ScanRec on a lap-top (unless he's got a Windows box available), which you can find here:

http://www.softpedia.com/get/Multimedia/Audio/Other-AUDIO-Tools/Scanner-Recorder-Scanrec.shtml

Leave the scanner there with a whip antenna, set ScanRec up for VOX operation and see what you've got on 129.4 after a couple days. If he can pick up the ground transmissions with a whip on the back of the scanner we will be in business. It will probably not amount to more than five or ten minutes of recording per 24 hours, sometimes nothing for a day.
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Feed Purveyor:
KJFK ARINC
KHPN ATIS
(KJFK) NY DEP Liberty East
HF CAR-A  3455/5550/6577/8846/11396
HF ARINC LDOC  6640/8933
HF NY VOLMET  6604

Complaints should be addressed to: City Hall
ferraraj
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« Reply #33 on: September 05, 2013, 11:30:30 PM »

The next immediate chore is to get another radio and stream going because you've got a hot traffic site with enough reception capability for about four feeds, not counting ARINC. It's been a black hole out there for too long and I think your feeds will be in the top fifty pretty much permanently.

I agree whole-heartedly...esp when the wx gets bad...these freqs will all be very busy and very interesting. If Loon is willing, of course...definitely split them up! I'd certainly be willing to kick in funds for that!

Dave's plan for a feed at Camelback will hopefully fill some more long-time ZNY holes!
« Last Edit: September 05, 2013, 11:33:56 PM by ferraraj » Logged

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ZBW Boston Center (ART08/UCA09)
KEWR Twr/Gnd/Cl Dl
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W3MAT
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« Reply #34 on: September 06, 2013, 09:50:19 AM »

My first time posting a picture, hope this works.  Since the Arrow Yagi (tuned for amateur radio, 146mhz) is working so well, I decided to build a 3 element Yagi specifically for the aircraft band.  It is cut/tuned for a center frequency of 129.000.  Assembly is complete...  1" PVC for boom, 1/2" copper tubing for elements (spare no expense..lol), project box to house the electrical end of the project, and paint.  As you can see (hopefully), my home built Yagi is in it's primer stage.  I will post another picture after painting is complete.

Loon
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W3MAT
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« Reply #35 on: September 06, 2013, 01:06:54 PM »

The antenna is completed and in the air as of 13:00 local time.  It seems to be working as I was picking up a flight on ARINC (129.4) with a passenger experiencing chest pains.  How do you like my paint scheme?

Loon
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InterpreDemon
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« Reply #36 on: September 06, 2013, 01:45:11 PM »

You're killing yourself with that feed arrangement, Loon. You need to run the coax along or inside the boom and well back behind the reflector before it turns down. At this point I bet the antenna would work better if you rotated it 90 deg to the "flat side" (or even 45 deg with the coax exiting the boom perpendicular to the radiator and then looping back down to the mast), since you would only lose about 3db due to polarization, and right now your pattern and feed impedance is so distorted you're probably losing at least double that.

But it's a good move on the 1/2" copper, those larger elements will give better bandwidth. I use 3/4".

What model did you use? Looks like the "standard" by your spacing.

Here's a couple I did, and my preference is to mount my vertical arrays from the rear and well away from the tower or mast. If your mast is metal, you either need to side-mount that beam at least 2' from the mast, run the coax horizontally from the feed point over to the mast and then down, or mount it end-on with the reflector as far from the mast as possible, though you can plug the mast effect into your model with NEC and adjust your elements accordingly, but the effect once you get beyond 1/4 wave diminishes rapidly.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2013, 01:54:07 PM by InterpreDemon » Logged

Feed Purveyor:
KJFK ARINC
KHPN ATIS
(KJFK) NY DEP Liberty East
HF CAR-A  3455/5550/6577/8846/11396
HF ARINC LDOC  6640/8933
HF NY VOLMET  6604

Complaints should be addressed to: City Hall
W3MAT
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« Reply #37 on: September 06, 2013, 03:58:37 PM »

Yup, you're right... I was running short on time and failed to run the coax along the boom and off the back.   That will be my early morning project tomorrow, as I am stuck at work now until 23:00.   As for getting it away from the mast, that may be a bit tricky.  The antenna, although small, has some weight to it with the copper elements and box in the center, and to add a "T" to the top of the mast and then more PVC of the back of the antenna into the T, well.... I just don't know.  I may find it lying on the ground some morning.  This is the first I has a chance to listen since I put it up this afternoon, as I was really cutting it close on time, but I have to say the way it is right now it's really not doing a bad job.  I guess what I mean to say is, I don't feel I've lost anything from what was hanging up there and 128.57 sounds a little bit quieter and 121.32 a bit stronger.  I'll make the coax adjustment in the morning and see what happens.  Really guys, I think I am about finished tweaking the reception factor on the feed.  In the past week, I've been through 3, no... 4 antennas, so what ya hear now is pretty much what ya get.  I have to admit though, building the Yagi from scratch and have it work this well is pretty gratifying.  It was a two day project, but a ball of fun to build and then paint into Southwest colors.  Now if I could just build one that looked like a 737...   Hey!   Just kidding....   Have a great weekend everyone!

Loon
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InterpreDemon
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« Reply #38 on: September 06, 2013, 04:54:52 PM »

Loon, you simply HAVE to get the metal mast away from the radiator unless it is perpendicular. For example, your boom can be metal instead of PVC... no problem, but I understand why you used it (so you could use the box). If metal you just have to remember to add appx half the thickness of the boom to the length of your elements for boom correction factor. Also, the extra few feet to the very top of the mast will make no difference, so what I would do if I wanted to save that PVC boom is add a union to the back with another two or three feet of PVC, then clamp the back of it about three feet from the top of the mast and run a nice think (50lb test) mono-filament line down from the top of the mast to your feed-point box to give it some support and keep everything straight. Only other thing to do is turn that coax exit 90 deg toward the back and zip-tie it to the boom, back and down the mast...

.... simple metal tube through the back of it's neck so it can breath. No problem, lovely budgie.
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Feed Purveyor:
KJFK ARINC
KHPN ATIS
(KJFK) NY DEP Liberty East
HF CAR-A  3455/5550/6577/8846/11396
HF ARINC LDOC  6640/8933
HF NY VOLMET  6604

Complaints should be addressed to: City Hall
W3MAT
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« Reply #39 on: September 06, 2013, 05:20:31 PM »

How about a piece of parachute cord instead of the fishing line?
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InterpreDemon
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« Reply #40 on: September 06, 2013, 05:35:09 PM »

Whatever... as long as it is non-metallic. I guarantee, if you get that beam mounted and fed properly you will see a big "jump" over what you've got now.
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Feed Purveyor:
KJFK ARINC
KHPN ATIS
(KJFK) NY DEP Liberty East
HF CAR-A  3455/5550/6577/8846/11396
HF ARINC LDOC  6640/8933
HF NY VOLMET  6604

Complaints should be addressed to: City Hall
W3MAT
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« Reply #41 on: September 06, 2013, 05:42:48 PM »

My gears are turning and I understand what your saying completely.  A trip to the hardware store is planned for tomorrow to get a union joint and a 3 foot piece of PVC.  I will charge up the drill tonight when I get home, and work will commence Sunday morning bright and early. 

Thanks for all your help and guidance, I greatly appreciate it.


Loon
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InterpreDemon
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« Reply #42 on: September 06, 2013, 06:09:53 PM »

No problem, anything for the best signal. Next time I am passing through we'll have to meet at the Milton truck stop.
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KJFK ARINC
KHPN ATIS
(KJFK) NY DEP Liberty East
HF CAR-A  3455/5550/6577/8846/11396
HF ARINC LDOC  6640/8933
HF NY VOLMET  6604

Complaints should be addressed to: City Hall
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« Reply #43 on: September 06, 2013, 06:13:58 PM »

Sounds like a plan
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W3MAT
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« Reply #44 on: September 08, 2013, 10:26:19 AM »

Good Morning,

Antenna work is completed.  The Yagi is now 3 feet away from the mast and coax run along the boom.  I didn;t have enough to get a loop off the back, but even with these changes I can notice a big difference.  128.575 is now pretty much full quieting.   Here's the pics...

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dave
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« Reply #45 on: September 08, 2013, 10:45:54 AM »

Nicely done!  Sounds great.
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InterpreDemon
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« Reply #46 on: September 08, 2013, 01:11:23 PM »

Definitely better, full coverage of everything east (where most of the action is) with Cleveland hand-offs to the west a bit weak as predicted. Good overall balance, the best to be done with only one antenna.
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Feed Purveyor:
KJFK ARINC
KHPN ATIS
(KJFK) NY DEP Liberty East
HF CAR-A  3455/5550/6577/8846/11396
HF ARINC LDOC  6640/8933
HF NY VOLMET  6604

Complaints should be addressed to: City Hall
RonR
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« Reply #47 on: September 09, 2013, 06:24:12 PM »

Hey Loon, got a question for you: I've noticed that the frequency 127.725 is used later at night when traffic is low.  I'm fairly certain that it's a ZNY center freq but I could be wrong.  I am wondering if you can hear the ground side of the transmission from your end.  Would you be willing to put that frequency in your scanner to see if that's the case?  It's not used during the day so it wouldn't affect your feed during the day.  I'm really just curious if you can hear the controller from your sdie.  If you can do that, great! Thanks!

Ron
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Feed Provider:
ZBW/ZNY/ZDC (JFK Area) 1
ZBW/ZNY/ZDC (JFK Area) 2
ZBW/ZNY/ZDC (JFK Area) 3
ZBW/ZNY/ZDC (JFK Area) 4
ZBW (CLIPR32/HTO31)
ZBW (DXR19/SOUTHIE49)
KLGA Gnd
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KLGA Twr
NY App (Liberty/North)
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« Reply #48 on: September 10, 2013, 08:01:59 AM »

Good Morning Ron,

I do have 127.725 in the scanner and I noticed the same thing.  Actually, I realized it some time ago, before I put the feed up, that I was hearing the controller but no aircraft.  Like you said, this was occurring later in the evening, typically after 22:00 local time.  I did some searching and found the aircraft on 127.725.  I do believe the controller is broadcasting from Williamsport, although I can't confirm, as I hear ZNY fairly strong on the scanner in truck when I leave work, but as I travel further west towards home, they fade out.  However, ZNY normally simulcasts on 128.575, 132.15, 123.62, and 134.8 when conversing with these later evening flights, again typically after 22:00.  So as long as I keep 127.725 in the lineup (with no delay activated) you should hear both sides of these late night flights, with the controller answering on either 128.575 or 132.15.  I really can't say for sure if my dedicated aircraft scanner for the feed is receiving 127.725, because I'm usually heading off to bed about that time and just haven't checked. 

Loon
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RonR
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« Reply #49 on: September 10, 2013, 09:42:17 AM »

Good morning Loon!

Oops, sorry, if I had checked the freq listing for your feed I would have seen that it was there.  embarassed

I'll be tuning in later tonight to see what I can hear on your feed.  I'll let you know  Thanks!  Great feed you've got there!

Ron
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Feed Provider:
ZBW/ZNY/ZDC (JFK Area) 1
ZBW/ZNY/ZDC (JFK Area) 2
ZBW/ZNY/ZDC (JFK Area) 3
ZBW/ZNY/ZDC (JFK Area) 4
ZBW (CLIPR32/HTO31)
ZBW (DXR19/SOUTHIE49)
KLGA Gnd
KLGA Dep
KLGA Twr
NY App (Liberty/North)
KLGA App (HAARP)
KLGA Del/ARINC/TCA
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