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| |-+  Pilot/Controller Forum (Moderators: dave, RonR)
| | |-+  Bad Procedures design , more workload
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Author Topic: Bad Procedures design , more workload  (Read 3773 times)
kilohungar
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« on: January 31, 2010, 03:32:15 AM »

Hi to Everyone I Would Like to know Your Opinion: Air Traffic Controllers,Pilots, about  the next issue.
I Work as an En route Control Center Controller and at the Center in which I Work the new procedures indicate that We Have to put the Aircrafts  in trail 10 miles one behind each other and then Clear them for an Arrival which Starts at FL 300 and with an Indicated Airspeed of 280kts. in order to get the Aircraft formed We have to issue a lot of Vectors, Because the Aircrafts are leveled at Cruising Speeds amounting for a workload . These Procedures have Big Mistakes because normally at a  FL250 or higher you should Use Mach Speeds as indicated by ICAO how is it possible to publish a procedure at FL300 and 280kts IAS? and secondly, because the difference in Temperature,density of the Air, Wind Speed and Direction You Cannot adjust the Speed of the Aircrafts because they are flying at different Flight Levels ,and You Cannot use the Mach Number Speed Technique because the aircrafts are at different levels only giving You The Option of issuing Vectors like Crazy, imagine to try and put a B747 behind in trail of a Fokker 100. Any Opinions about This ?
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atcman23
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« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2010, 11:09:21 AM »

Yes, if you're in the US, contact your NATCA rep for your facility or talk to your supervisor about the procedure.
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Mark Spencer
Casper87
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« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2010, 06:12:28 PM »

Apply your own speed control...
It's your neck on the line whilst your plugged in, so if you don't think the procedure is safe then don't use it.
Do the other controllers on your sector feel the same?
If they do then raise the issue with a supervisor and explain what your concerns are.

I'm assuming your not US?

C
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kilohungar
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« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2010, 10:44:53 PM »

Thank You , Yes I'm Not in the USA and believe  it or not We have talked about it  with everybody from Supervisors to the Highest position Controller in the Company and getting to the Civil Aviation Authority the same as the FAA   in my Country and there's only negative responses.
And the Most sad Thing it's that other Controllers begin to Break the Rules  and try to Adjust the Speeds of the Aircraft, trying to assign Mach Number Speeds at different Levels including  Aircrafts with strong tail winds and Aircrafts with strong headwinds , and also dangerous because our own country rules for Radar procedures indicate that the only possible Speed assignments should be made using INDICATED AIR SPEED.The Mach Number Technique Clearly indicates that in order to use it, the Aircrafts should be flying at the same levels and along the same routes and at least 2 hours in the same conditions, that does not happen with these procedures because You Begin with the Vectors at about 60-70 miles from the fix of arrival which is hardly 2 hours and the aircrafts coming at different flight levels and  from different directions.
I Don't Know Who was the inventor of such a Procedure  but definitely was not an Air Traffic Controller.
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