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Author Topic: En route or Terminal ATC  (Read 22489 times)
kaktak1
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« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2007, 06:54:10 PM »

I was just wondering because I remember when the controller couldn't raise a cessna on the freq so she asked a SWA jet to see if he could contact him.  Turns out he was opening his VFR flightplan at prescott FSS.  Not a good time to be on the freq when the pilot got back on the frequency.  And another question.  Why is it that sometimes, the APP/ARTCC controller says "I can't get a handoff to ____"  is the position refusing it?
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If black boxes survive air crashes — why don't they make the whole plane out of that stuff?
DairyCreamer
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« Reply #16 on: December 13, 2007, 07:24:49 PM »

so are all of the controller at ZAB all in NM?  So when I am flying out of KFFZ, and get flight following, and PHX TRACON hands me to ZAB, I am actually talking to a person in NM?

Kind of new at interpreting this stuff so bear with me.

En-route airspace is massive, and encompasses all the airspace not otherwise worked by "local" TRACON and tower controllers.

When you are told to contact Albuquerque Center, the radio frequency you switch to is piped to our facility in Albuquerque, NM.  We see you on radar piped to us all the way from sites in West and South Arizona.

In short, yes, all the controllers at Albuquerque Center are in Albuquerque, NM.  Our facility is located at 8000 Louisiana Blvd NE, 87109 if you'd like to look at it on Google Maps Smiley

As you see in the above list, as well, there are a couple dozen en-route facilities for the US and its territories.  If you ever take a jaunt up  to, say, Henderson, NV (a small tower south of Las Vegas), You will talk to controllers in the following places:

Mesa, AZ (Falcon Tower)
Phoenix, AZ (Phoenix TRACON)
Albuquerque, NM (Albuquerque ARTCC)
Palmdale, CA (Los Angeles ARTCC)
Las Vegas, NV (Las Vegas TRACON)
Henderson, NV (Henderson Tower)

Here is one of many pictures out there illustrating the magnitude of airspace that the best controllers on earth work.  I am proud to be a mushroom, but secretly want to have a swivel  on my cap  afro



~Nate
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DairyCreamer
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« Reply #17 on: December 13, 2007, 07:29:14 PM »

I was just wondering because I remember when the controller couldn't raise a cessna on the freq so she asked a SWA jet to see if he could contact him.  Turns out he was opening his VFR flightplan at prescott FSS.  Not a good time to be on the freq when the pilot got back on the frequency.  And another question.  Why is it that sometimes, the APP/ARTCC controller says "I can't get a handoff to ____"  is the position refusing it?

To answer your question, often there are some differences in the radar coverage that the center and approach controllers can see, and while you are approaching the boundary of the airspace, the receiving controller can't see you yet.

Either that, or the other controller is busy enough with IFR aircraft that they can't accept a handoff to provide flight following services.

Controllers don't refuse handoffs unless they have to.  Providing flight following is required, workload permitting.  Worst case, the controller you're with will terminate your radar service and have you call up approach... they'll possibly get your radar identified again and keep up with the flight following.

Ok... outta here for the evening.

~Nate
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NAplaya16-ATC
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« Reply #18 on: December 14, 2007, 04:16:02 PM »

How long is the transition from one controller ending his work session a new controller taking over for the previous one?

i know a full briefing is given to the new controller, about weather, traffic, whose goin where, etc.   

but how long does the controller A stay after he/she gives the briefing do they stay?

-NAplaya
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DairyCreamer
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« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2007, 04:45:23 PM »

The technically correct answer is that the relieved controller should stay and observe the relieving controller to see if they need any assistance and to review the information he gave his relief to see if there were any important omissions.

This phase is technically part of the relief briefing, and you can see the whole breakdown in the .65 at (http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraffic/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/ATC/Appendices/atcapdd.html)

In reality... when the relieving controller says "I got it" or "no questions" or "get the hell outta here," most start their break forthwith.

~Nate
« Last Edit: December 14, 2007, 04:47:05 PM by DairyCreamer » Logged
kaktak1
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« Reply #20 on: December 14, 2007, 06:15:35 PM »

thanks nate,  clears up a lot about my questions for Center.  I might have heard you before.  I think we were on 124.5 or 125.4.  can't remember, easy to get confused with those freqs
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If black boxes survive air crashes — why don't they make the whole plane out of that stuff?
PHL Approach
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« Reply #21 on: December 14, 2007, 06:19:25 PM »

thanks nate,  clears up a lot about my questions for Center.  I might have heard you before.  I think we were on 124.5 or 125.4.  can't remember, easy to get confused with those freqs

What Nate didn't touch base on was that Centers are also split into 5 to 8 Specialties/Areas. In ZAB, they are called specialties and there are 5. Northwest, Southwest, North, East and Southeast. The sectors that you mentioned are in the SW. Nate works in the SE. Then each Specialty is split into 6-8 sectors.
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moto400ex
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« Reply #22 on: December 14, 2007, 06:43:12 PM »

I work in a Tower and I love it. Going to work every day to WATCH planes take off is very cool. You cant beat the windows. The facility I work at is also an UP/DOWN. So you get the best of both worlds. A little bit of tower and a little bit of radar. The choice is really up to you. Would you rather work at a tower and look out the windows all day, or work at a dark center and stare at radar scopes all day?

Just looking at  your profile picture, if your a controller there, Ive probably talked to you alot.  Ive always wondered what you guys up in the tower do when we dont fly, since there is not much other traffic besides northwest,fedex and probably a few other aircraft. 
« Last Edit: December 14, 2007, 06:52:11 PM by moto400ex » Logged
NWA ARJ
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« Reply #23 on: December 14, 2007, 07:04:58 PM »

Just looking at  your profile picture, if your a controller there, Ive probably talked to you alot.  Ive always wondered what you guys up in the tower do when we dont fly, since there is not much other traffic besides northwest,fedex and probably a few other aircraft. 
[/quote]

So my old picture was a little decieving. I dont work at GFK, I actually work at FAR. I now put up a picture of where I work.  But on IFR days we dont do crap. We get a few planes like the airliners and some cargo ops, so on those days you usually BS with other controllers or some read books and magazines or some look through ads in the paper for christmas gifts. Just something to pass the time by.
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Nightmare 68, Fargo Tower, Runway 36, Fly Runway Heading, Mantain 10,000, Cleared For Takeoff, Change To Departure
moto400ex
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« Reply #24 on: December 14, 2007, 07:08:35 PM »


So my old picture was a little decieving. I dont work at GFK, I actually work at FAR. I now put up a picture of where I work.  But on IFR days we dont do crap. We get a few planes like the airliners and some cargo ops, so on those days you usually BS with other controllers or some read books and magazines or some look through ads in the paper for christmas gifts. Just something to pass the time by.
[/quote]

HAHa so your about 63 miles south on V181 been to Fargo several times. 
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NWA ARJ
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« Reply #25 on: December 15, 2007, 11:40:52 AM »

HAHa so your about 63 miles south on V181 been to Fargo several times. 
[/quote]

Yep thats where FAR is, I think you and almost all of the other UND students have been here, on days where it is nice it can get pretty crazy here. There have been a few days where I have seen 6 or 7 in the pattern. Not to mention along with a few IFR arrivals.
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Nightmare 68, Fargo Tower, Runway 36, Fly Runway Heading, Mantain 10,000, Cleared For Takeoff, Change To Departure
moto400ex
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« Reply #26 on: December 15, 2007, 06:54:13 PM »

Yep thats where FAR is, I think you and almost all of the other UND students have been here, on days where it is nice it can get pretty crazy here. There have been a few days where I have seen 6 or 7 in the pattern. Not to mention along with a few IFR arrivals.
[/quote]

Whenever im down there and hear so many other UND aircraft im somewhat hesitant to call in with yet another UND aircraft not knowing how the controller will respond as they already seem pretty frustrated and busy as it is.  At least you dont have 2 parallel runways to work like they do in Grand Forks where like you said on a clear day it gets super busy. 
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NWA ARJ
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« Reply #27 on: December 16, 2007, 10:38:12 AM »

Whenever im down there and hear so many other UND aircraft im somewhat hesitant to call in with yet another UND aircraft not knowing how the controller will respond as they already seem pretty frustrated and busy as it is.  At least you dont have 2 parallel runways to work like they do in Grand Forks where like you said on a clear day it gets super busy. 

There are only two things that frustrate me with the Sioux birds, first on initial call, when they dont tell us where they are, where they are going, etc, and then we have to play 50 questions with them. The second is the Air China students, its just so hard to understand them!
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Nightmare 68, Fargo Tower, Runway 36, Fly Runway Heading, Mantain 10,000, Cleared For Takeoff, Change To Departure
moto400ex
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« Reply #28 on: December 18, 2007, 04:01:07 PM »

Whenever im down there and hear so many other UND aircraft im somewhat hesitant to call in with yet another UND aircraft not knowing how the controller will respond as they already seem pretty frustrated and busy as it is.  At least you dont have 2 parallel runways to work like they do in Grand Forks where like you said on a clear day it gets super busy. 

There are only two things that frustrate me with the Sioux birds, first on initial call, when they dont tell us where they are, where they are going, etc, and then we have to play 50 questions with them. The second is the Air China students, its just so hard to understand them!

LOL!!! Those air china students are funny.  No disrespect to them but wow they really dont speak very clear english at all.  When I was out around Grand Forks one of the controllers could not understand one kid for nothing and asked him to repeat I think 3 times.  Finally the controller asked if another person was onboard to handle ATC because he was "unreadable" as they said.  Its almost a safety concern especially if they go on solo X/C's to places outside of our area as other controllers are probably expecting people who speak some clear english.  Another time we were landing 35's in Grand Forks, so one of the asian students I guess confused enters a downwind for 17 which caused alot of confusion.  I guess we just have to deal with them but I think as time goes on you get used to it and can understand what they are saying better.  Not sure how many there are but I feel like they out number the regualar aviation students.
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ZAUATC
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« Reply #29 on: December 20, 2007, 11:46:45 AM »

 When's the last time you had 8 airplanes all on a vector at the same time?  Not that either one's harder, it's just different.

Everytime the weather goes down in Chicago I have 8 planes being vectored at once. I work an area at ZAU that include both high alt enroute and center arrival for ORD from the NE...trust me, I vector!! HA HA

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