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| | |-+  Filing direct through DUATS
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Author Topic: Filing direct through DUATS  (Read 11960 times)
asiAdams
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« on: March 16, 2009, 05:10:14 AM »

I've filed several IFR flight plans direct using DUATs and it gives fixes from VORs like for LIT-OKC, "HOT360022 FSM180022 PGO360022 MLC360021 OKM180029".  So Hot Springs r360, 22nm, FSM r180, 22nm, etc.
This is pretty easy to figure out, not too difficult to use, but none of the controllers I've gotten clearances from seem to have ever seen this before and usually ask what the heck all that junk is on a direct.
Any ATC'rs deal with this, care, would prefer I delete the radial fixes from the plan? I've never filed using any other service so I don't know how the flight plan usually comes out, but the responses I've gotten to this seems to indicate it's not liked.

Thx for any thoughts/comments!
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captray
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« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2009, 05:20:53 AM »

Hey there!
I too have seen the weird radials and stuff on DUATS. This seems only to happen when you file Direct to a destination. Domestically I use Flightplan.com it's free and highly accurate. Also, it has a section where you can see what others have filed and most of all what they received from ATC.
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Cancel the IFR~!
Jason
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« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2009, 07:31:33 AM »

One word: fltplan.com  smiley
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cessna157
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« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2009, 10:29:50 AM »

Jason, I agree 100%    Fltplan.com is a miracle sent from heaven.  Or its a really nice website that someone designed.  Either way, it's freakin great
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jmcmanna
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« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2009, 12:03:07 PM »

When I'm working approach and I have get a strip out of the printer for someone coming through my airspace and I've never heard of where he's coming from or where he's going, it becomes a game as to whose airspace he'll go into next, how long he'll be in my airspace, where he's coming from, etc...  I like having exact points in space where an aircraft is going along his route of flight.  As far as clearance delivery is concerned, if a controller doesn't know what OKC360022 (or similar) means, he needs to go ask his supervisor for some remedial training.  All he has to say is "cleared as filed" or "cleared via (airport specific routing/procedure), vector to the OKC 360 radial at 22 DME, then as filed".

From the first post, I'm not sure if you mean DUATS is putting in those VOR radials and DMEs when it sends the flight plan, or if you are opting to include them even though it will let you send them without.  Assuming you're intentionally including them, as a pilot, be prepared to navigate directly to one of those points in space from somewhere off of your route.  Here's what I mean . . .

. . . Let's say you're level at 6000, and you have to cross over my departure area for the main airport in my airspace.  I might give a 30 degree turn and let you run for 15 miles on a heading, then say "Proceed direct the West Bend 250 radial at 23 DME, then resume own navigation".  If you don't have that ability, then there's a problem.  If you can't do that, then personally I'll say "cleared direct" to your destination, get annoyed, go over to the FDIO and take all of the fixes and radials out of your flight plan, which might take some time.  Then I'll coordinate with the next facility to make sure they got the amendment, etc . . .  Other controllers might yell at you for filing like that, some might go further with it.

If you are able to navigate to those fixes easily, then there's no problem!  Finally, if you don't want those fixes in there, but DUATS is putting them in automatically and you can't take them out, by all means, use a different website like the ones mentioned before. 

This is what it looks like with all the fixes on the strip:
LIT HOT360022 FSM180022 PGO360022 MLC360021 OKM180029 OKC

Without that stuff, it looks like this:
LIT OKC
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KSYR-pjr
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« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2009, 12:28:31 PM »

Finally, if you don't want those fixes in there, but DUATS is putting them in automatically and you can't take them out, by all means, use a different website like the ones mentioned before. 

FYI DUATs will allow the user to remove those points; it drops them into the ROUTE box by default but they can easily be removed. 

Given that filing and receiving direct in the Northeast is almost as rare as finding gold at the end of a rainbow I haven't tried to file direct in several years, so your information is educating.   Thanks.
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Regards, Peter
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keith
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« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2009, 01:06:36 PM »

This is going slightly off topic, but not too far...

The AIM states that you should file at least one fix per ARTCC and per altitude stratum being used.  Looking at enroute charts, your flight appears to transition more than one ARTCC.

If it's IMC, do you _really_ want direct to the airport, or do you want direct to an IAF or feeder from which an approach can be flown?

I'm always happiest when I have a cleared route which can be flown sans radar if need be. It's also helpful for the lost communications case.   I would file a flyable non-radar route, then get as many shortcuts as possible enroute (if you're in a rush to get there).
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Jason
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« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2009, 04:00:44 PM »

Jason, I agree 100%    Fltplan.com is a miracle sent from heaven.  Or its a really nice website that someone designed.  Either way, it's freakin great

My dad is an old friend of the site's founders (Tim and Ken).  They do a pretty good job with the site and the number of pilots and dispatchers who use it speaks to where they stand in the commercial sector of aviation.
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asiAdams
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« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2009, 03:52:27 PM »

Hey guys, thanks for the replies! I usually prefer to fly victor airways anytime I file IFR; however, a gentleman I fly with quite a bit(I navigate/work radios), prefers to file direct so I get to deal with the radial/dme fixes on the plan. I'll get him to use a diff service to file his plans from now on.

I really like everything DUATS has, but I'll check out Fltplan.com. Again, thanks for the responses!
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jonnevin
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« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2009, 12:51:26 AM »

i think it's a pretty safe bet that once you try fltplan.com, duats will not be part of your filing procedures any more.  wink
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keith
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« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2009, 11:22:14 AM »

Since nobody has mentioned it, I'll put in a plug for FlightAware, which also has an interesting flight planner, now.  It provides details around the estimated cost of each suggested route/altitude.  It will also put together a briefing package with all relevant charts, metars, tafs into a single download, too.  And yes, it files IFR for you.
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asiAdams
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« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2009, 07:57:02 PM »

I've been checking out fltplan.com, with an open mind! It looks pretty good. It'll take a little getting used to. I'll use it some and see how it looks on me.
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RPM
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« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2009, 10:15:57 PM »

I sure wish the folks at fltplan.com would hire a professional graphics person to give that site a badly needed re-design. The site is loaded with functionality, but it is so terribly clunky to use because of the "buttons-all-over-the-place" design I gave up on it a long time ago.

I use Golden Eagle Flight Prep (free) from Stenbock and Everson and like it very much. I always file direct destination and get it, flying out of northeastern Ohio into Virginia and points south. Won't work for TEB, though!
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mklatval
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« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2009, 01:36:39 AM »

Any controller should know how to read that, but sometimes I see DUATS replace the destination (or a fix on the route sometimes) with lat longs, I hate seeing those on a clearance as it tells me absolutely nothing.
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