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Author Topic: Jazz 7777  (Read 13567 times)
mstram
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« on: April 02, 2009, 06:48:38 PM »

I wonder if  this call sign drives any of the  Atc controllers crazy ? ,,,And of course the pilots probably more so, who have to transmit it for ~1-3 hours or more.

What do all of these words have in common :

one, two, three, four, five, six, eight, nine, ten

What is different about 'sev-en' ? .... duh ?

Why weren't any of them used instead of sev-en.

"Lunatics running the asylum" ?

Whose "bright idea" was this?
« Last Edit: April 02, 2009, 06:50:32 PM by mstram » Logged
cessna157
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« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2009, 07:04:10 PM »

It is just Air Canada's marketing flight number for that particular flight.  It came in the sequence after 7776.

Chautauqua pilots flying the Delta routes got tongue twisted a lot due to their flight numbers being in the 6000s.  "Chautauqua sixty....."  Try saying that quickly.

There are a few airlines that use callsigns other than their straight flight number.  Comair (Delta flights, NWA flights use full flight number), American Eagle, and Air Wisconsin do this (ASA used to, but no longer for some reason).  Usually it involves dropping one or two digits from the marketing flight number to make the callsign.  Comair throws 1000 onto each continuing leg of a thru-flight or diversion.

eg.  American flight 3933 is EGF933, USAirways flight 3763 is AWI63A/AWI763A, Delta flight 6263 is COM263/COM1263/COM2263.........
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mstram
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« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2009, 07:58:13 PM »

It came in the sequence after 7776.

LOL, and '7776' is just as dumb.

I can't see how any airline needs more than 3 digits to identify the flight. ... And eliminating '7' from those three digits still leaves 900 flight numbers available.

Btw, I haven't heard any flights called 'XX' 000 either, which I assume must be intentional.
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cessna157
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« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2009, 09:50:24 PM »

I can't see how any airline needs more than 3 digits to identify the flight. ... And eliminating '7' from those three digits still leaves 900 flight numbers available.

Btw, I haven't heard any flights called 'XX' 000 either, which I assume must be intentional.


Traditionally, airlines do not offer a flight #0.  Many times flight #1 is the first numerical flight number, but not always, depending on the airline's naming conventions of their flight number sequence.

But to your first point, most major airlines offer more than 1000 marketing flights.  And most legacy carriers with regional feeders organize their flight number naming conventions.  I'll use Delta Airlines as an example (this is not current, but is an example of a few years ago):

Flight #:
1-190    International flights
200-1800 Scheduled domestic flights
1801-1999 Skywest flights
2000-2800  Song flights
3000s  Skywest flights
4000s ASA flights
5000s Comair flights
6000-6199 Freedom flights
6200-6399 Chautauqua flights
6400s Shuttle America flights

7000s-8000s  Code share flights

9000s  Charters, Ferry flights, stub flights, etc.


This is not currently Delta's flight # breakdown due to the merger (incorporating Compass, Mesaba, and Pinnacle flights).
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sykocus
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« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2009, 02:58:54 AM »

There are harder callsigns out there. I had something like an E88808 (air evac eight eight eight zero eight) once. It's easy to add or skip an 8. The Australian civil registrations always get me. For some reason I can't make VHVRE roll off my tongue smoothly.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2009, 03:08:06 AM by sykocus » Logged

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atcman23
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« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2009, 07:38:05 AM »

From my experience, no matter what airline you are talking about, it seems that the 9000s are reserved for charters or ferry flights.

I know with US Airways, commuter/regional flights are typically 4-digit numbers.  Certain banks are set aside for certain operators (Air Wisconsin, Allegheny, Air Midwest, etc).  I used to have an old list breaking this down but, it has since disappeared.  Most mainline US Airways flights are 3 digits, again, depending on the sequence, much like Delta.
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« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2009, 05:51:38 PM »

From my experience, no matter what airline you are talking about, it seems that the 9000s are reserved for charters or ferry flights.

The way my airline breaks down the 9000s is:

9400s - Maintenance test flights/mechanical ferry flights
9600s - Aircraft repositions
9740s - Charters
9750s - Extra Sections  (a part 121 revenue flight that is added on at the last moment, to move passengers around)
9900s - Charter aircraft positioning (sometimes just uses the charter flight #, and internal non-flying test numbers
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atcman23
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« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2009, 07:48:53 PM »

From my experience, no matter what airline you are talking about, it seems that the 9000s are reserved for charters or ferry flights.

The way my airline breaks down the 9000s is:

9400s - Maintenance test flights/mechanical ferry flights
9600s - Aircraft repositions
9740s - Charters
9750s - Extra Sections  (a part 121 revenue flight that is added on at the last moment, to move passengers around)
9900s - Charter aircraft positioning (sometimes just uses the charter flight #, and internal non-flying test numbers

From what I can remember, US Airways broke it down in a very similar manner.  9900s for US Air were Aircraft repositions but they had this block of flight numbers broken down for more or less "non-revenue" flights (yes, charter flights would be a "revenue" flight but it's not scheduled daily service).

I was thinking about this earlier and I once saw a website that had different airlines' blocks of flight numbers and it listed what each block represented (i.e. the 9000s were charter/ferry flights, etc.).
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american2492
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« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2009, 09:49:49 PM »

Something else kind of interesting. If a flight is significantly delayed, the will append D to the callsign if Another with the same flt number will depart that same day. This is very rare and you usually only find it on transatlantic flights that are delayed until the next day. Even then is it rare because sometimes they just assign a completely new flight number.

Also....

AAL 1 is the flight from JFK-LAX... Its like the trans-coast route and being that it is a flagship route it gets number one even though it isnt international. Whenever you hear AAL 1 come on the radio they sure call in with a lot of pride. They are right up there with AF 1!!!!



Interestingly enough..

AAL 1 = JFK-LAX
UAL 1= ORD- HNL
DAL 1= JFK-LHR
NWA 1= LAX-NRT
USA 1=PHX-ORD
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joeyb747
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« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2009, 09:07:56 AM »

When I was at Zantop, we did things just a tad different...we were an ad-hoc charter airline, so nothing was scheduled. We started with "Zantop 001" and went up to "Zantop 999", then started back at the beginning with "001"...but that's non-sched...

It didn't matter what type of flight it was, they got the next number in line. Trainer Flights simply had "Trainer" added after "Zantop", "Zantop Trainer 545" for example. Ferry flights also got a flight number...next in line.

Our "Flight" numbers were actually "Trip" numbers. Say one of our Electras' was going on a multi-leg flight, say empty out of KYIP, picking up cargo in KMEM, and departing fully loaded, a Customs stop in KLRD, then on to MMMX. Unload in Mexico City, and empty back to KYIP...all legs would be completed under the same callsign, or trip number.

Just in case anyone is interested...here is a couple of Zantop pics. The first one is Zantop L-188C N5512, formerly with Eastern Airlines, seen at KYIP in 1998. A real head turner any place she went! I remember being on a trip one time, KYIP-KCID-KIND-KYIP, we were on the KCID-KIND leg, and a Lear Jet was overtaking us. The Lear pilot came on the radio and asked the controller "What kind of airplane is that?" to which the controller replied "That's a Lockheed L-188 Electra, classic bird!" The Lear pilot simply replied "Sexy!" Heres the pic:

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Zantop-International-Airlines/Lockheed-L-188A(F)-Electra/0306963/L/&tbl=&photo_nr=14&sok=&sort=&prev_id=0427345&next_id=NEXTID

In our busier days, in addition to the Electras, DC-6Bs, and Convair 640s, we operated a large fleet of DC-8s, including DC-8-62 N813ZA, seen here in full Zantop colors landing at KLAX in 1987...bet you cant guess why this is one of my faveriot Zantop pics...maybe the TWA 747 in the background... wink

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Zantop-International-Airlines/McDonnell-Douglas-DC-8-62AF/0680362/L/&tbl=&photo_nr=9&sok=&sort=&prev_id=0681209&next_id=0679534

« Last Edit: April 22, 2009, 09:23:47 AM by joeyb747 » Logged

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american2492
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« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2009, 10:14:25 AM »

What ever happened to zantop?
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sykocus
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« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2009, 01:00:41 PM »

Something else kind of interesting. If a flight is significantly delayed, the will append D to the callsign if Another with the same flt number will depart that same day. This is very rare and you usually only find it on transatlantic flights that are delayed until the next day. Even then is it rare because sometimes they just assign a completely new flight number.

Also....

AAL 1 is the flight from JFK-LAX... Its like the trans-coast route and being that it is a flagship route it gets number one even though it isnt international. Whenever you hear AAL 1 come on the radio they sure call in with a lot of pride. They are right up there with AF 1!!!!



Interestingly enough..

AAL 1 = JFK-LAX
UAL 1= ORD- HNL
DAL 1= JFK-LHR
NWA 1= LAX-NRT
USA 1=PHX-ORD

Just to add to that
COA1 is IAH-HNL then becomes
CMI 1   HNL-GUM
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joeyb747
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« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2009, 06:34:57 PM »

What ever happened to zantop?

Folded up. Out of buissness. Airlines like Amerijet and USAjet could carry the same payloads in the DC-9/B727 as we could in the L-188 in about the same time, but cheaper. The L-188 was a fast turboprop! The DC-8s were getting way to expensive to operate and maintain. In the end, Zantop operated a small fleet of L-188Cs and pair of Ex-Transcontinental DC-8-54s (N8041U and N8042U) that were former United birds. Talk about an UGLY hybrid! See the link below. 9-11 would have done them in for sure anyway. Sad...at one point, they were the answer for air frieght. They had a full on Hub and Spoke set up. They were FedEx, they were UPS. I'm proud to say I was part of that once great airline!

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Zantop-International-Airlines/Douglas-DC-8-54AF-Jet/0133891/L/&tbl=&photo_nr=8&sok=&sort=&prev_id=0188380&next_id=0128289

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american2492
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« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2009, 06:24:26 PM »

That DC-8 sure was a good looking bird. Did you only fly the L-188 or did you run the DC-8s too?
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joeyb747
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« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2009, 09:00:56 PM »

That DC-8 sure was a good looking bird. Did you only fly the L-188 or did you run the DC-8s too?

I was a dispatcher for Zantop, and have enjoyed the privilege of riding along on both types in the jumpseat.

And, yes, the DC-8 is a good looking bird...but I never did care for the "black bonnet" as we used to call it!  wink
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