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| | |-+  Jetblue pilots showboating @ SXM
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Author Topic: Jetblue pilots showboating @ SXM  (Read 15510 times)
iskyfly
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« on: April 11, 2012, 01:28:42 PM »



Name the questionable actions of the crew.
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Unbeliever
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« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2012, 07:20:03 PM »

Other than using the blast pad (putting them closer to the fence) there's nothing wrong with doing a short field takeoff at that airport. Especially with the terrain at the other end of that runway.  That involves standing on the brakes, running up the engines until they're stable max thrust, and then letting go.

There's tons of warning signs that tell people not to do what they did (jet blast surfing), but as Ron White says, "You can't fix stupid".

--Carlos V.
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iskyfly
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« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2012, 11:38:48 PM »

there's nothing wrong with doing a short field takeoff at that airport. Especially with the terrain at the other end of that runway.  That involves standing on the brakes, running up the engines until they're stable max thrust, and then letting go.
Is there such a thing as a short field takeoff in the POH for an A320 that describes what you mentioned?
 
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notaperfectpilot
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« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2012, 06:18:46 PM »

Name the questionable actions of the crew.

what questionable actions of the crew?
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iskyfly
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« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2012, 08:16:21 PM »


1- You don't taxi, takeoff, land, let alone hold, on the overrun- the area with the yellow chevrons painted on it. That area is not usable for takeoff or landing.

2 and 3 to come.

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iskyfly
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« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2012, 09:47:37 AM »

2- Waving the elevators / horizontal stabilizer at the spectators (19 second mark).
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beechsundowner
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« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2012, 01:12:09 PM »


1- You don't taxi, takeoff, land, let alone hold, on the overrun- the area with the yellow chevrons painted on it. That area is not usable for takeoff or landing.

Not always.......  If you say always, you are flat out wrong....   Qualify this statement and I would agree.
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iskyfly
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« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2012, 03:06:04 PM »


1- You don't taxi, takeoff, land, let alone hold, on the overrun- the area with the yellow chevrons painted on it. That area is not usable for takeoff or landing.

Not always.......  If you say always, you are flat out wrong....   Qualify this statement and I would agree.
For starters, the section / chapter titled "Airport Operations" in your PHoAK is your friend.

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beechsundowner
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« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2012, 03:13:45 PM »

For starters, the section / chapter titled "Airport Operations" in your PHoAK is your friend.

HINT......  I fly by FARS not by airport operations of whatever you are talking about.  

Out of respect to the forums as this entire thread isn't related to ATC or communications, I will even tell you the answer rather than let this get out of hand from your lack of understanding of real world flying.  Final answer....

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgFAR.nsf/0/e63bbedc3044a110852566cf00612076!OpenDocument
« Last Edit: April 16, 2012, 03:17:20 PM by beechsundowner » Logged

iskyfly
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« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2012, 03:54:31 PM »

For starters, the section / chapter titled "Airport Operations" in your PHoAK is your friend.

HINT......  I fly by FARS not by airport operations of whatever you are talking about.
You never read the PHoAK during ground school? That is hard to believe. It's not too late though. These days you can get it for free off of the FAA's website (the same people behind the FAR's).

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Out of respect to the forums as this entire thread isn't related to ATC or communications,

"This is a place for pilots and air traffic controllers to discuss airspace issues, local procedures, general safety issues, training and anything else of interest to both pilots and controllers."

You see, among other things, this is a safety and training issue. I don't believe it is unreasonable for a discussion to be had regarding issues of safety and procedure so that we can all learn to be better and safer pilots.

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I will even tell you the answer rather than let this get out of hand from your lack of understanding of real world flying. 
I say again, calm down. This is a discussion forum.

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So which one of these applies to this Jetblue event?

Do you really need every discussion prefaced by a disclaimer that the book goes out the window during an emergency?
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notaperfectpilot
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« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2012, 04:31:08 PM »

there is no such thing as the "PHoAK"



* FAA search.JPG (50.61 KB, 801x527 - viewed 753 times.)
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JetScan1
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« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2012, 04:44:08 PM »

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2- Waving the elevators / horizontal stabilizer at the spectators (19 second mark).

rolleyes

« Last Edit: April 16, 2012, 04:56:13 PM by JetScan1 » Logged
martyj19
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« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2012, 05:26:16 PM »

May I point out that the airport at which this happened is in the Netherlands Antilles and is not subject to American regulations.  There may be a local MOU about takeoff procedure that applies, as well.

As I pointed out on another forum, I do not think the video is particularly conclusive as to the path taken by the aircraft being or not being over the blast pad area.  Also, as I pointed out there, and having personally visited this airport, every takeoff is done as a short field takeoff and a quick departure turn due to a significant obstruction off the departure end.  I would disagree somewhat with the characterization that the crew is showboating since this is the ordinary practice at this airfield.

Here is a photograph from Airliners.net on short final so everyone is on the same page as to what it looks like:

http://www.airliners.net/photo//1353357/L/

I am terribly sorry that the young lady was injured, but there are warning signs posted about not doing this, and it does happen day after day after day that heavy iron spools to takeoff power on that spot.


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martyj19
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« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2012, 07:10:31 PM »

Here's the link for what has been referred to as the "PHoAK"

http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/aviation/pilot_handbook/
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iskyfly
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« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2012, 07:43:08 PM »

May I point out that the airport at which this happened is in the Netherlands Antilles and is not subject to American regulations.  There may be a local MOU about takeoff procedure that applies, as well.
Imagine for a minute if international air crew had to know not only their base country regs, but the regs of every country they flew to? Thats where ICAO comes in. Member states (such as SXM) follow ICAO. When flying outside the US, ICAO rules prevail. The use of chevrons to identify blast pads is the same for ICAO member states as it is for the US.

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  Also, as I pointed out there, and having personally visited this airport, every takeoff is done as a short field takeoff and a quick departure turn due to a significant obstruction off the departure end.
As I asked before- Is there such a thing as a short field takeoff in the POH for an A320 that describes what you mentioned?

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I would disagree somewhat with the characterization that the crew is showboating since this is the ordinary practice at this airfield.
I would disagree that the use of blast pads for takeoff is an ordinary practice. There is a reason why it is called a blast pad and there is a reason why blast pads are defined as areas not usable for takeoff and landing.


(oh, and just for sunny- except in emergencies).
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