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Author Topic: Class B  (Read 7402 times)
wampler24
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« on: August 25, 2009, 03:37:10 PM »

Hello all! I am new to the forum and have a question... I flew to KCLT the other day with my instructor on my first IFR training mission...

 Let me start by saying I wish someone had a recording of the feed because my dumba#$ landed on the wrong runway. I blame myself badly for this mistake but ATC was awsome saying "89N, you do know your lined up on 23 and not 18L don't you"... To which I replied.... "uh......." She then came back and said "Your cleared to land on 23..."... What a really nice lady.

 Anyway, I am rambling... My question is this. I REALLY liked knowing that I was in the hands of ATC the whole way. How often do they deny flight following when filed on VFR? I also would like to here from controllers on thier opions of planes such as the small warrior I fly coming into Class B on a half way busy day. All the airports around here are C and D and well, just not busy. I would like to fly to CLT often but am concenred about a busy day down there and them being frustrated trying to squeeze me in.
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atcman23
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« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2009, 10:32:06 PM »

Personally I don't know anyone that has been denied access to Class B airspace, but ATC can deny a flight following request through Class B if they are extremely busy.  I don't think that this occurs too often and is probably more common to hear this in very busy Class B airspace such as New York, Chicago, LAX, etc.  but I still don't think they deny people often.  The fact is that they can ("remain clear of the Class Bravo airspace and stand by") but in reality, you can be denied access to Class C and D airspace as well (however, those airspace classes work a bit differently).

If you're looking at flying into CLT often, it would probably not hurt you to find out when their busiest times of day are.  This way, you know which times to try and avoid and will probably make your life (and ATC's) a bit easier.  I don't think the small aircraft are too much of an issue around a small airport as they can try as best as possible to work you into a spot without having a 747 on your rear end 5 miles out and closing.  However, you may be asked to keep your speed up if you do get caught during a rush.

Hope this helps you out! Smiley
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Mark Spencer
Dannno
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« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2009, 04:08:27 AM »

I would not include LAX (SoCal approach) in the list of those that might deny.  In my experience, SoCal has been most accomodating. 

Heck, last time through I was headed over the top southbound to San Diego.  We were receiving flight following.  A bit north of LAX the controller asked for my plan through the LAX Class B airspace.  I 'fessed up "I'm not familiar so we're going around the east end" (I calculated the route would only add about 5 minutes to the flight).  Then added "But if you have a better idea, I'm all ears".

"Stand by, I'm working on it" was his reply.

A minute later he asked "Can you navigate direct VNY (Van Nuys), direct SLI (Seal Beach)?"  The simplicity of the question, akin to "can you walk erect without aids?" too me back a second.   I replied with a hearty "Yes Sir!"

"Ok, the next controller is going to clear you for the xxxx transition.  Just smile and nod, it's what I just gave you".

(And she did... worked out like a charm.  The transition put is straight over the heart of LA).

Every TRACON should be as accomodating!
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atcman23
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« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2009, 08:55:50 AM »

Wow very nice!  I've heard that NORCAL and SOCAL TRACONs are nice and usually very helpful.  And it's good to hear someone who had a very good experience with them.  It just goes to show that most TRACONs usually do try and accommodate you as much as they can wherever they can.  In the "list" that I included (certainly no basis behind the list besides busy airspace) in my prior post, I was merely point out that since they are usually busy that it's possible they might deny a aircraft from entering the airspace however, as I also stated, I don't think it's a common occurrence at all.  However, that's not to say that they can't deny you access, either.
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Mark Spencer
tyketto
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« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2009, 12:18:31 PM »

Wow very nice!  I've heard that NORCAL and SOCAL TRACONs are nice and usually very helpful.  And it's good to hear someone who had a very good experience with them.  It just goes to show that most TRACONs usually do try and accommodate you as much as they can wherever they can.  In the "list" that I included (certainly no basis behind the list besides busy airspace) in my prior post, I was merely point out that since they are usually busy that it's possible they might deny a aircraft from entering the airspace however, as I also stated, I don't think it's a common occurrence at all.  However, that's not to say that they can't deny you access, either.

It may also be because of how many different routes there are through each airspace there. SOCAL has the miniroute, the shoreline route, the coliseum route, the Hollywood Park route, and the SFRA around KLAX alone! Add in the KSAN VFR Corridor, and you have at least 6 different ways to fly through the Class B down there.

NORCAL doesn't really have any VFR transition routes through the Class B, but they'll base theirs off of US 101, which is right off the 28s and the 1s. They'll transition you through there on that side of the Bay.

But to be honest, it all depends on traffic. IF they don't have enough, they'll let you through. Even with the CORTEZ1 route through the LAS Class B, I hear tons of pilots get denied Class B entry to get to KVGT because of how much traffic is coming through each arrival gate.

BL.
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dljone3
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« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2009, 01:09:36 PM »

I fly out of an airport (KLOM) near Philly Class B. When in contact with ATC, I've never been denied transition through their Class B. However, on a number of occasions when they are really busy, I haven't gotten a response from them on my initial calls for flight following. So by default I had to stay out of their Class B. I know a number of other pilots who've had similar experiences.
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Unbeliever
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« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2009, 05:09:05 PM »


A minute later he asked "Can you navigate direct VNY (Van Nuys), direct SLI (Seal Beach)?" 

That's the Coliseum Route.  One of the 4 Charted ATC Clearance Bravo VFR Transistions.  There is another via the SFRA over LAX that doesn't require clearance.

Don't expect other Bravo transitions other than those unless you're on a photo mission or bug dropping mission.

But that doesn't negate the reputation for SoCal bending over backwards to help those requesting service (and can listen and talk on the radio).

--Carlos V.

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Inferno
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« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2009, 03:20:27 AM »

I've flown through both the LAX Class B, and the SFO B, and controllers there were very accommodating to helis. I fly under Norcal Approach daily, and they are incredibly nice. Only a couple times while receiving flight following have services been terminated.
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FlyAuburn13
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« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2009, 07:58:50 PM »

I learned to fly in an airport that exists under the Atlanta Class B airspace (KRYY if anybody was curious) and I've never really had too bad of a problem with that.  It is difficult to pick up flight following at some points though.  There are times of day where they're just too busy and will deny you the FF.  That happened to me on my first solo cross country which made that a little bit more nervewracking but it's not usually a problem.
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War Damn Eagle
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