Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
July 01, 2016, 02:52:10 PM
Home Help Login Register      
News: Check out: Air Race Classic 2016


+  LiveATC Discussion Forums
|-+  Aviation
| |-+  Pilot/Controller Forum (Moderators: dave, RonR)
| | |-+  ATC as a career
« previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] Go Down Print
Author Topic: ATC as a career  (Read 55237 times)
jmcmanna
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 36


« Reply #25 on: February 07, 2009, 02:56:49 PM »

it is disturbing that they put newbies out to big centers like NYTracon and the like. But if they're trained well there should be no problem.

The issue is that developmentals are only given a limited amount of hours for on the job training at each position, then they MUST certify.  Some people just don't have the ability to consistently work airplanes throughout every situation that arises in that amount of time.  It's like saying that you have to pass your private pilot check ride in 60 hours; if you don't, you can't keep training anymore.  It's probable for most people in a Cessna 172 (Level 5 facility), but nearly impossible in a Boeing 747 (Level 12 facility).

I would highly recommend turning down a job offer for any facility that is an ATC-9 level or higher if you don't have prior ATC experience.  Lately, the FAA has been allowing new hires to turn down several offers.  A majority of new hires have a reasonable chance of becoming certified at an ATC-8 facility or lower.

Start smaller, succeed in training, then move up to a bigger, more complex facility . . . or go to a level 11 or 12 facility and wash out in the first 6 months (or less).
Logged
djmodifyd
Guest
« Reply #26 on: February 07, 2009, 06:31:07 PM »

it is disturbing that they put newbies out to big centers like NYTracon and the like. But if they're trained well there should be no problem.

The issue is that developmentals are only given a limited amount of hours for on the job training at each position, then they MUST certify.  Some people just don't have the ability to consistently work airplanes throughout every situation that arises in that amount of time.  It's like saying that you have to pass your private pilot check ride in 60 hours; if you don't, you can't keep training anymore.  It's probable for most people in a Cessna 172 (Level 5 facility), but nearly impossible in a Boeing 747 (Level 12 facility).

I would highly recommend turning down a job offer for any facility that is an ATC-9 level or higher if you don't have prior ATC experience.  Lately, the FAA has been allowing new hires to turn down several offers.  A majority of new hires have a reasonable chance of becoming certified at an ATC-8 facility or lower.

Start smaller, succeed in training, then move up to a bigger, more complex facility . . . or go to a level 11 or 12 facility and wash out in the first 6 months (or less).

Thats mostly correct.
You can get extention of your hours, a certain percentage of them, i don't remember how many though.

Also, the FAA has changed face, if you don't make it, you can transfer to a lower level facilitiy if you show signs of improvement.
Logged
RV1
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 104


« Reply #27 on: February 07, 2009, 09:29:05 PM »

To be on the safe side... if you wash out of a training program, the FAA does NOT have to offer you a position at another facility. As two recent CPCs from my facility found out at C90, the FAA does NOT have to offer you an extension of training hours. Considering the dire straights that the FAA is in with such a shortage of controllers, you'd think that they'd be working really hard to keep all employees/trainees and find places for them to check out and get seasoned, and then move them to higher level facilities. But they aren't, and it doesn't make sense...
Can you tell that I'm not in management?
Logged

Kick butt, take no names, they dont matter anyways
bartleby913
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1


« Reply #28 on: February 13, 2009, 01:24:42 AM »

All this is very interesting.  I'm a Paramedic now and have been for several years.  For the past few years I have been contemplating changing things around.  ATC was a career I was looking into.  Would be very interested but Pay doesn't seem to be so great for someone with a mortgage and other bills used to a 60k a year salary to just drop to 20k a year for training.  Here is my question.  What is the pay scales broken down for ATC starting from training and up.
Logged
sykocus
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 349



« Reply #29 on: February 13, 2009, 02:12:28 AM »

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pJ4stwBZPxXO1aunJJsuMCQ

That's the pay chart from last year. Everything when up 1.7% this year so it's not too different. Once you finish training at OKC you are at the AG grade (academy grad). As you progress though training at your facility you move up to D1, D2, D3. Once you finish training you become a CPC. The requirements for each promotion are different at each facility as is the amount of time it generally takes to progress. As a new hire you make the bottom of the band (lower number) or 6% more then what you were making in the previous band, (which ever is higher). Each vertical column in the pay chart is for the pay level of your facility. For example the pay for a level 8 facility is in the H column. The higher the level, generally the more traffic you work, but there are other factors that come into play.
Logged

Yesterday I couldn't spell air traffic controller. Today I R one.
patcopioneer
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1


« Reply #30 on: February 13, 2009, 10:07:55 AM »

The FAA as an employer, manager, budget comptroller, research and development specialist and negotiator fails miserably !
Anyone seeking employment with that organization would do well to investigate the history and inner workings of the FAA/DOT. And I haven't even mentioned their Labor/Management "prowess"!

Good luck !
Logged
mkop
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 29


« Reply #31 on: February 13, 2009, 10:47:34 AM »

The spreadsheet above does not include locality pay, which seems to be a major contributor to salary. Look at http://www.stuckmic.com/atc-pay-scale.html for the entire salary. Compare a max of $109k for a CPC at a level 12 facility according to the spreadsheet with $141k at ZNY according to stuckmic.com
Logged
sykocus
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 349



« Reply #32 on: February 13, 2009, 11:56:45 AM »

The spreadsheet above does not include locality pay, which seems to be a major contributor to salary. Look at http://www.stuckmic.com/atc-pay-scale.html for the entire salary. Compare a max of $109k for a CPC at a level 12 facility according to the spreadsheet with $141k at ZNY according to stuckmic.com

Well as the name in implies, locality varies for each location. Also if you work outside the lower 48 you are not eligble for locality. You get payed COLA which can be up to 25% of your base pay but never more.

However as a new hire you start at or near the bottom of each pay band. There are only a couple ways people find their way to the top of the band. One is to transfer to a facility of a lower pay level, in which case you would keep your current pay or get the top of the band (which ever is lower). Another way is if you get converted from one of the old pay systems.
Logged

Yesterday I couldn't spell air traffic controller. Today I R one.
glencar
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 176


« Reply #33 on: February 13, 2009, 02:14:17 PM »

There's a "B scale" now for new hires. Someone new at ZNY will NOT be making $141K annually.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!