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Author Topic: Transponders  (Read 13862 times)
ogogog
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« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2012, 07:25:46 PM »

... still cant think of one reason under normal operations to have a aircraft stop sqwk near an airport.

EAA Airventure

Sun & Fun

well done, but OSH isnt a normal operation.
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eltors0
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« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2012, 07:42:53 PM »

How many of you have even seen ring around. ive seen it once in 30 years and it was in my USAF days at RAF Bentwaters using an old moble RAPCON. most of the FAA radars are now ASR 9/11s which are not prone to ring around.in the 5 years i was at C90 with all the traffic around  KORD ive never seen it once. still cant think of one reason under normal operations to have a aircraft stop sqwk near an airport.

At my facility, ring around is somewhat common but it doesn't last more than a few sweeps.  It might be due to the fact it is an ASR 8.

yep that one would do it i belive the 8s are still analog , dose it happen with air targets or when someone has the txp on while on the ground.are you using ARTS or STARS where you work?

It only happens with air targets.  We don't have ARTS or STARS.  We use OD-58's for the RATCF and up in the tower we have a BRANDS.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2012, 07:45:58 PM by eltors0 » Logged
davolijj
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« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2012, 11:23:14 PM »

...allowing the radar system to include the altitude information next to the aircraft's target, as well as receive the transponder code and include some flight plan data next to the altitude information. When a transponder is turned off or not equipped on an aircraft (some GA aircraft do not have transponders), ATC can still pick up the aircraft on primary radar. While a primary radar target does not have the altitude or flight plan information next to it...

The transponder does not provide any flight plan data, at all.  The only thing it broadcasts to the radar system is a 4-digit beacon code, and an altitude.  Radar automation systems do the rest.

Terminal or Enroute automation systems manage the flight plan data via the NAS HOST computer system, and parts of that data are presented on the radar system for the controller to access.  It is true, the radar system cannot display altitude information for a primary target, or one for non-mode C equipped aircraft either.  But the datablock will still have exactly the same flight plan information displayed as a transponder-equipped aircraft would because flight plan data is independent of an aircraft's transponder.

And by the way, a primary-only, or non-mode C track in the enroute environment can still display a controller-entered altitude in the datablock despite the equipment limitations.
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JD
sykocus
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« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2012, 02:46:20 AM »

yep that one would do it i belive the 8s are still analog , dose it happen with air targets or when someone has the txp on while on the ground.are you using ARTS or STARS where you work?

ASR-8 can be digitized. When I left the AF they were installing STARS at my base and were going to digitize the existing ASR-8 pending funding for the the new radar. Now that I'm in the FAA our facility uses an ARSR-4 and an ASR-8 digitized and fed into MEARTS.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2012, 02:50:59 AM by sykocus » Logged

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Twocky61
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« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2012, 06:08:37 AM »

Thanks Davoljj & Sykocus
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Nick Attwell
ogogog
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« Reply #20 on: January 26, 2012, 09:02:20 AM »



It only happens with air targets.  We don't have ARTS or STARS.  We use OD-58's for the RATCF and up in the tower we have a BRANDS.
[/quote]

ARMY/DOD ?
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eltors0
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« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2012, 01:26:38 PM »

USMC
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Twocky61
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« Reply #22 on: January 26, 2012, 03:38:04 PM »

Thanks Dngnkeeper
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Nick Attwell
kumara6
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« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2012, 01:58:28 PM »

I was recently listening to ISP Tower feed, and they were telling 2 a/c that were doing Touch n Gos in the pattern to Squawk Standby.
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StuSEL
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« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2012, 05:36:52 PM »

...allowing the radar system to include the altitude information next to the aircraft's target, as well as receive the transponder code and include some flight plan data next to the altitude information. When a transponder is turned off or not equipped on an aircraft (some GA aircraft do not have transponders), ATC can still pick up the aircraft on primary radar. While a primary radar target does not have the altitude or flight plan information next to it...
The transponder does not provide any flight plan data, at all.  The only thing it broadcasts to the radar system is a 4-digit beacon code, and an altitude.  Radar automation systems do the rest.
Yes sir, what I should have said was "receive the transponder code and thus include some flight plan data..." Thanks for the other information, too!
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CFI ASEL
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Eastman
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« Reply #25 on: February 06, 2012, 07:12:47 PM »

It is used in the process of one of the secondary ways to radar identify an aircraft.  Also, when ATC deems that the secondary is not necessary upon the aircraft getting within 15 nm from destination airport, they may instruct to turn off the transponder.  Also during certain phenomena such as ring around, ATC may instruct the pilot to turn off the transponder to reduce ring around or if there is a high population of actual targets (aircraft) to reduce scope clutter.

100% WRONG, in 30 years ive never ask to have a TXP turned off because i didnt think i needed the secondary target.do you even know what happens to an ARTS/STARS data block when the TXP is turned off ?...IT DROPS OFF AFTER 3 SWEEPS WITH WITH OUT A TXP SIGINAL


You've never flown to Oshkosh or Sun N' Fun, Have you?
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Keep it EZ Man
ogogog
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« Reply #26 on: February 07, 2012, 08:17:42 AM »

Oshkosh and Sun N Fun ARE NOT NORMAL OPERATIONs with special procedures , and what dose it matter if ive ever flown there that has to do with this?
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StuSEL
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« Reply #27 on: February 09, 2012, 12:48:08 AM »

Oshkosh and Sun N Fun ARE NOT NORMAL OPERATIONs with special procedures , and what dose it matter if ive ever flown there that has to do with this?
There's no need to shout over this...

The statement posed from eltors0 was "Also, when ATC deems that the secondary is not necessary upon the aircraft getting within 15 nm from destination airport, they may instruct to turn off the transponder," to which you responded "100% WRONG..."

Eastman is pointing to a specific example to cite the statement you said was "100% wrong."

Where do you control?
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CFI ASEL
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eltors0
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« Reply #28 on: February 09, 2012, 03:57:37 PM »

I am pretty sure he gets it now that it has been explained.  No need to beat a dead horse.
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MikeNYC
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« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2012, 06:28:35 PM »

I was recently listening to ISP Tower feed, and they were telling 2 a/c that were doing Touch n Gos in the pattern to Squawk Standby.

I had that happen to me at ISP several years ago when training. I was told to squawk Standby while in the pattern.
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