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 1 
 on: Today at 06:51:30 PM 
Started by janlam01 - Last post by Adrian8
Thanks again for the clips.

 2 
 on: Today at 12:12:00 PM 
Started by bd1111 - Last post by bd1111
Has sounded fine for the last few days. Thanks. FWIW, the feed is missing Freq. 128.75 which is the Tower control for departures on Runway 25.

 3 
 on: Today at 11:35:10 AM 
Started by stonemin - Last post by swa4678
As marty already pointed out, there is still some confusion about IFR/VFR and IMC/VMC. Nothing in the set of Instrument Flight Rules says that visual cues shall never be the primary method of, for example, navigating to a runway. After all, that's what a visual approach is.

so i wonder why visual approach is IFR.
Because it wouldn't make sense for it to be a VFR procedure. If you're flying VFR, you're already on one big visual approach (of sorts; you just don't have the runway or a preceding aircraft in sight at all times) to your destination since you must remain in VMC at all times.

With IFR, however, that's not the case. They will be using navaids or following vectors from the moment they depart up until they reach the terminal area of their destination. If the weather is VMC, they could save the controllers some hassle of getting them setup for an instrument approach by just proceeding visually to the runway. Hence why the "visual approach" procedure was created for such situations.

 4 
 on: Today at 10:07:06 AM 
Started by stonemin - Last post by martyj19
Once more, whether you are on instruments or not has nothing to do with whether you are under IFR or VFR.  You have misunderstood that part.

You need to be on instruments any time you do not have sufficient vision outside the aircraft to keep it stable and upright.  You can only legally go below VFR minimums when you are IFR.  But you will fly visually when you are on a visual approach or the part of an instrument approach below minimums.

 5 
 on: Today at 03:26:54 AM 
Started by stonemin - Last post by stonemin
really thank you..

actually, i understood that IFR means pilot must depend on the instrument not visual so far as. so i wonder why visual approach is IFR. because visual approach needs VMC and pilot must see the airport or the preceding aircraft.

but according to your answer, IFR means pilot mostly depends on the instrument, and also depends on their eye. is it correct?

if yes, i have misunderstood the meaning of IFR. Thanks for your answer. it really help me to understand about IFR and VFR.

 6 
 on: Today at 12:58:00 AM 
Started by stonemin - Last post by martyj19
Under IFR, you can fly visually rather than on instruments if you are in VMC.  But remember that large aircraft usually engage the autopilot so it is flying the cleared route very precisely without any eyes involved.  No, IFR does not include VFR.  You are on one set of rules or the other at any one moment in time.

It does happen that a VFR flight starts to get into IMC or needs to get down through clouds and then requests an IFR clearance.  Assuming that the pilot and aircraft are IFR rated and equipped it could be granted.  We call that a "pop-up clearance" or an "air file".  Once accepted by ATC the flight is then under IFR.  More than likely you wouldn't then transition back to VFR, though you could.  This is called "cancelling IFR".  Also, scheduled air service is routinely filed IFR and end of discussion no matter what the weather.

There are two main reasons why IFR flight has a cleared route.  One is that the controller will know what to expect from the aircraft.  It will fly the cleared route.  This is essential to the controller's job of maintaining separation.  Two is that in the event of radio communications failure, the aircraft will fly the cleared route.  When that happens, the controller will move other aircraft away from the radio-failure aircraft.

When you are VFR and on a VFR altitude like 3500 you will maintain your altitude and fly around the cloud or you will climb or descend to another VFR altitude to avoid the cloud.  You are not free to choose your altitude.  See
http://www.liveatc.net/forums/pilotcontroller-forum/far-91-159-and-flight-following/


 7 
 on: Today at 12:56:31 AM 
Started by stonemin - Last post by swa4678
Is it correct that IFR can have visual flight(depending pilot's eye) not instrument in VMC? If yes, Does IFR include VFR?
IFR and VFR don't directly correlate to what the weather or visibility is. Each is a set of rules (the "FR" stands for "flight rules" in both cases) that you are going to follow as a pilot. Yes, in the case of VFR, several of those rules relate to meeting certain weather/visibility minima... but that's not the only difference, hence why there is a distinction between VFR and VMC (or IFR and IMC).

I know VFR flight can fly everywhere they want to go as maintaining VMC.
Careful there - not everywhere. There are several of examples where VFR flight isn't allowed, such as:
  • Above 17,999 ft MSL (and below 60,001 ft MSL).
  • Any time the visibility drops below a certain number of miles or the pilot can't maintain a minimum number of feet above/below/horizontally from a cloud (the numbers change depending upon which airspace you're in or even what time of day it is).
  • Any time the pilot can't meet minimum requirements to operate in a given classification of airspace (such as the inability to receive permission to enter it if it's controlled airspace).
None of those apply to flights operating under an IFR clearance.

so Is it possible IFR flight fly everywhere they want to go(not planned route) and when they encounter IMC, they use instrument(IFR) and just keep flying(in the IMC)?

why IFR flight must get clearance(including route), and fly as planned route?
How would the controller be able to provide positive separation if (s)he has no idea where you're going? How would (s)he know when you're providing your own separation and when you're depending upon the controller to do so?

The answer to both ("not possible") explains why the answer is: no, that situation is not (and could not be) permitted.

and I know there's vfr altitude(like 3,500ft, 5,500ft), and i have some question about it.
It sounds like you're referring to a "VFR cruising altitude" when you're above 3,000 ft AGL. In other words, you're referring to 14 CFR 91.159.

I believe VFR flight are free in flying, and they just see and avoid some obstacle. But when they fly as vfr altitude and encounter cloud, i think they must keep VMC so they should descend or climb to avoid cloud. it means they have free in choosing altitude. So i think the vfr altitude disturbs VFR flight to maintain VMC. Why is there vfr altitude which restrict them maintaining VMC ?

Someone could probably come up with a few reasons, but two good ones would be:
  • They help lessen the probability that someone is going to appear at your 12 o'clock, opposite direction, same altitude, converging very quickly.
  • They help you (and the controller) maintain appropriate vertical separation between IFR traffic in Class B or Class C airspace (minimum is 500 ft).
And again, I'd be hesitant to agree with a wide open statement such as "they have [freedom] in choosing altitude." If you don't have permission to enter controlled airspace and suddenly climb into it to avoid a cloud, it's great that you avoided the cloud... but you still violated the Class B airspace and might end up receiving a phone number to call to discuss a possible pilot deviation.

 8 
 on: Today at 12:34:00 AM 
Started by stonemin - Last post by stonemin
Thank for your answer
but i still have some doubt about IFR and VFR.

Is it correct that IFR can have visual flight(depending pilot's eye) not instrument in VMC? If yes, Does IFR include VFR?

and why should IFR flight have clearance(including route... etc)? i mean, Why don't IFR flight fly where they want to go like VFR? I know VFR flight can fly everywhere they want to go as maintaining VMC.
so Is it possible IFR flight fly everywhere they want to go(not planned route) and when they encounter IMC, they use instrument(IFR) and just keep flying(in the IMC)?

why IFR flight must get clearance(including route), and fly as planned route?

and I know there's vfr altitude(like 3,500ft, 5,500ft), and i have some question about it.
I believe VFR flight are free in flying, and they just see and avoid some obstacle. But when they fly as vfr altitude and encounter cloud, i think they must keep VMC so they should descend or climb to avoid cloud. it means they have free in choosing altitude. So i think the vfr altitude disturbs VFR flight to maintain VMC. Why is there vfr altitude which restrict them maintaining VMC ?

I know this is fundamental question.. but i can't find my answer by searching in google..

I hope you make answer about my question, thanks..

 9 
 on: September 30, 2014, 11:23:05 PM 
Started by janlam01 - Last post by janlam01
Today at 12 noon, Runway 14/32 reopened after several months of construction (new pavement and realignment of taxiway L).  Porter 255 was the first arrival to use the runway, while Air Canada 453 was the first for departure.

Media: http://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/30-million-runway-opens-at-ottawa-airport-1.2032320

Flightaware:
POE255 - http://flightaware.com/live/flight/POE255/history/20140930/1525Z/CYTZ/CYOW
ACA453 - http://flightaware.com/live/flight/ACA453/history/20140930/1700Z/CYOW/CYYZ

Attached is the audio clip. Regrettably, the landing clearance for Porter 255 was missed due to conversation from other frequencies heard from the CYOW feed.

 10 
 on: September 30, 2014, 10:41:06 PM 
Started by stonemin - Last post by martyj19
Most of the confusion you are having is between VFR and VMC and between IFR and IMC.

Under Visual Flight Rules, the pilot is responsible for separation from other traffic.  This is accomplished by requiring the pilot to be in Visual Meteorological Conditions at all times.  This means three miles visibility and specified clearance from clouds.  The cloud clearance requirements are to make sure that an IFR aircraft doesn't emerge from a cloud so close that the VFR aircraft can't see and avoid it in time.  Under VFR, the pilot need not be in contact with ATC unless nearing or inside control zones such as Class B, C, D airspace.  In dark night VFR, the pilot will be using the instruments heavily since there is no visible horizon to refer to.  At least in the US, a VFR pilot need not file a flight plan (in most cases) and can use any means of navigation, including reference to landmarks on the ground, VOR/NDB radio navigation aids, or GPS.

Under Instrument Flight Rules, the controller is responsible for separation from other traffic.  Because of this responsibility, under IFR, the pilot is always in contact with ATC.  This is true whether or not the flight is in VMC or IMC.  The controller will use radar or other techniques to keep track of separation and issue clearances to ensure that traffic remains separated and gets to where it is going.  When an IFR flight is in VMC, the pilot should be seeing and avoiding also.  The pilot will be on instruments in IMC, since there is no other way to keep the aircraft from an upset.  They may or may not be on instruments in VMC.  The pilot must file an IFR flight plan and be cleared for a route by ATC and may be re-cleared as conditions develop over the course of the flight.

A visual approach is not an Instrument Approach Procedure.  It can be given when the pilot is in VMC and reports the airport and the traffic they are following in sight.  The pilot will fly using visual cues from being cleared for the approach all the way to touchdown, but they are still under IFR.

On an instrument approach, the procedure itself is responsible for terrain avoidance above Minimum Descent Altitude/Decision Height.  If flown according to the charted approach with the appropriate altimeter setting, the aircraft is guaranteed obstacle clearance down to MDA/DH.  If flown with controller issued vectors, the controller remains responsible for terrain avoidance and will do this by using Minimum Vectoring Altitudes.    When you get to MDA/DH, you must have the "runway environment in sight" (one of a dozen or so things are acceptable) and from there you would complete the landing using visual cues, and once again you are still under IFR.  If you don't have the runway, or lose it before touchdown, you must initiate a missed approach and fly the published missed procedure until ATC issues a different clearance.

There are many little exception cases in what I've outlined.

I hope my English is understandable and please ask further questions if you want.

If possible, I encourage any ATC student to take a flight and experience these things from the pilot perspective.

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