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January 26, 2015, 09:29:17 AM
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 11 
 on: January 24, 2015, 01:53:21 PM 
Started by laylow - Last post by InterpreDemon
My hope is that is what happened... they flew into an embedded cell, which can happen around large systems like the one they were trying to traverse.

If it turns out to be another sad instance of pilots discussing various "laws" and trying to point and click their fly-by-wire machine to safety it will be very depressing indeed.

 12 
 on: January 24, 2015, 01:08:58 PM 
Started by dave - Last post by Silvercrystal77
I just discovered LiveATC (much to the dismay of my family since I now listen to feed practically non-stop. LOL) but started out plane spotting at NAS Fort Worth JRB aka Carswell Airfield.  I have also worked at an aviation museum giving tours and helping out with maintenance on WWII bombers (B-17G and B-25) at Meacham and frequented Alliance Airport Fort Worth on the weekends to watch the military birds fly in from around the state.  I grew up about 15 minutes from IAH so that airport is like my home and have always loved watching the planes fly over our house.  I am excited to join the community:)

 13 
 on: January 24, 2015, 11:12:09 AM 
Started by Silvercrystal77 - Last post by Silvercrystal77
Did anyone catch the aborted take off just now at IAH?

 14 
 on: January 24, 2015, 09:36:13 AM 
Started by masterkeymaster - Last post by AeroBill
Speaking about stuck mikes. They seem to be fairy common with aircraft radios. Don't they have an
indicator light or symbol on the radio to indicate the radio is transmitting even when it shouldn't be?
Or is it just a case of the pilot not noticing it until ground controller or other aircraft mentions there is
a stuck mike on the frequency?

 15 
 on: January 24, 2015, 08:23:37 AM 
Started by laylow - Last post by graemesmith
If there is one thing CONTINUES to bother me about this - it is the sensationalistic news reporting.  The latest being a statement by CBS News the other night that "The pilot pulled the plane up in a climb that was steeper than the plane was designed for"  (I paraphrase their report - but it was stated as a certitude).

No possibility that - "the plane MIGHT have been caught in the enormous updrafts associated with thunderstorm activity and exceeded its design load".  Far more probable than a pilot with thousands of hours flying the plane outside the envelope.  Let's face it - he had asked for a weather divert - looks like he got a mixture of unlucky (T/Storms are very tricky beasts to look into) and might have been a bit more assertive and said he WAS diverting for weather.

Sorry - thus endeth the rant - but I suspect this is not totally a pilot error.


 16 
 on: January 23, 2015, 03:46:47 PM 
Started by TangoWhiskey - Last post by Squawk 7700
I just ordered one.  smiley
Ken

 17 
 on: January 22, 2015, 11:32:11 PM 
Started by mk223 - Last post by InterpreDemon
Exactly, Tim, and I suspect that the TC heard Redwood clearly with but a low heterodyne from 526 underneath. AM reception does not have the "capture effect" that FM reception does (where a signal 3-6db stronger can "conquer" the limiter stage and effectively remove the weaker signal) which is why they still use it for aircraft... unless the difference between the two signals is overwhelming (12-15 db or more) and/or the transmitters are within less than, say 20hz frequency difference you are going to hear evidence of a blocked transmission. It is easily possible for these signal strength differences to occur on the field (despite all the signals being strong) due to larger relative inverse square differences in (the comparatively smaller) distance of the aircraft(s) from the field receiver than with a receiver that is 4-5 miles away (in the case of the LiveATC feed) or 8 miles away as my recordings were captured.

For all we know the TC heard Redwood just fine over top of 526 and, as I said before, could easily have assumed the double (if he heard it) was somebody who had just been handed off by APP trying to get a word in edgewise and who would doubtless try again anyway. 526, not hearing any dispute from the TC after reading back a routine and expected instruction, assumed their read back was correct and proceeded as they thought they had been instructed. The only other unknown is whether the missing instruction for 526 would have been forthcoming had not the event occurred, but it seems to me that would have been a bit later than usual, especially when you look at the actual elapsed time between when 526 was cleared to land (#2 following traffic on short final), when the Redwood instruction was given four minutes later (and 526 was clearly on the ground or at the very least least on short final), when 1295 was cleared to go almost a minute later and when the event occurred 30 seconds after that. So the way I look at it, even if 526 had correctly heard and ignored the Redwood instruction they still would not have received any instruction from the tower at the very least for a minute and a half after landing and possibly as many as three, which seems a bit odd to me, whereas the Redwood transmission would have occurred right about when I believe 526 would have been rolling out.

The slightest change in any of the factors would have made this a nil event... if it was Redwood niner-niner, if 1295 had been on-time, if the butterfly on Agent Starling's lips had been able to flap its wings, etc.

Shvt happens, that's all.

 18 
 on: January 22, 2015, 10:02:58 PM 
Started by mk223 - Last post by tim.landscheidt
To me it sounds like both voices read back the crossing clearance adding their distinct callsigns.  In any case, if the recording reflects what ATC actually heard, they should have detected the situation and proceeded with caution.  In the Tenerife airport disaster, (detectable) mangled radio transmissions were a major cause of the accident.

 19 
 on: January 22, 2015, 02:06:20 PM 
Started by mk223 - Last post by InterpreDemon
That's why these things get a postmortem from the experts, and as we all know when bad things happen it is usually due to multiple small errors or unfortunate coincidences. For example we do not know how the GC's receiver on the field heard the double read back to his redwood instruction... If redwood stepped clean on 526 (and he assumed any heterodyne was a handoff from APP who would try again) he still would have been deemed to have failed to properly communicate to 526 any taxi and handoff instructions. On the other hand if 526 stepped on redwood or both were unintelligible he failed to confirm the read back. The only failure I see on the part of 526 was taking the redwood instructions as those they were expecting (and had yet to receive) anyway. I have removed the exchange immediately prior to that instruction, the two were in rapid fire succession, and it's easy to imagine the pilots housekeeping on rollout hearing the "26" or even just a "6" and mistaking it for the expected, routine instruction.

As to the power of minor distractions I need not remind you of Eastern 401 that flew into the ground due to a burned out gear light and AdamAir 574 that fell into a graveyard spiral from cruise due to preoccupation with an inertial platform anomaly.

There's enough blame to go around in these types of things and the best we can do is try to learn from them.

 20 
 on: January 22, 2015, 01:32:53 PM 
Started by mk223 - Last post by keith
If there's a block, ATC usually hears it, too and usually says something like, "that was for <callsign> only," then repeats the instruction.

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