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 51 
 on: September 16, 2014, 01:50:47 AM 
Started by masterkeymaster - Last post by StuSEL
The FAA Private Pilot Written Exam asks a question about when it is most appropriate to request flight following. At a towered airport, it is when on the ground. The idea is so the controller can, in fact, type in a VFR flight plan for the radar controller. Most towers have that capability nowadays, but you'll know if they don't -- they'll simply tell you what frequency to use to request VFR FF.

 52 
 on: September 15, 2014, 09:46:48 PM 
Started by masterkeymaster - Last post by swa4678
Some of us started using the ARTS keyboard to enter VFR flight plans if you gave us a destination airport, but the older crew would chide us for it, saying that wasn't our job. I saw it as saving the Departure controller some time from having to enter it himself, and he would be able to see the info as soon as the target acquired on the radar (as well as receiving a printed VFR strip for that aircraft). I can also do a simple handoff of the radar target instead of Departure having to radar identify a plane.

A couple of months ago, I went flying with a buddy out of a local Class D airport under the MCI TRACON. I forget how it came up, but when Tower found out we were looking to get flight following as we were holding short of the runway, we actually got chided for not doing that right from the start - saying it would have been a lot easier for everyone, just as you're thinking out loud above.

We have a reserved set of beacon codes for flights that originate and terminate within our airspace.
Out of curiosity, are those in the 02 code block for you, too? If not, do they at least start with 0?

If it's a quiet Saturday, feel free to shoot the breeze. Smiley
Heh.. careful there. With the frequency combining (but not coupling) and/or landlines... it might sound like a "quiet Saturday" to a specific pilot a lot more than it does to you.  evil

 53 
 on: September 15, 2014, 09:31:08 PM 
Started by masterkeymaster - Last post by jermscentral
I've noticed a couple of differences between VFR departures in the Class D tower where I used to work compared to the Class B where I am now.

Class D
Pilot: "Spirit Ground, Cessna 172SP at Air Associates, information Delta, ready to taxi, VFR to the west."
ATC: "Cessna 172SP, Spirit Ground, runway 26R, taxi via Echo."
Pilot: "26R via Echo, Cessna 172SP."

We did handwritten strips for VFR departures and just had you depart on a 1200 squawk, and if you wanted flight following (or requested it on initial contact), the vast majority in the tower would just tell you that flight following would be on 126.5, which is STL Departure. Some of us started using the ARTS keyboard to enter VFR flight plans if you gave us a destination airport, but the older crew would chide us for it, saying that wasn't our job. I saw it as saving the Departure controller some time from having to enter it himself, and he would be able to see the info as soon as the target acquired on the radar (as well as receiving a printed VFR strip for that aircraft). I can also do a simple handoff of the radar target instead of Departure having to radar identify a plane.

Class B
Pilot: "St. Louis Clearance, Cessna 172SP at Signature, information Delta, request VFR departure (to the north, to Hannibal Airport, on a 350 degree heading)."
ATC: "Cessna 172SP, St. Louis Clearance, cleared out of the STL Class Bravo airspace to the north. Maintain VFR at 3000, departure frequency 119.15, squawk 4245."
Pilot: "Cessna 172SP, cleared out of Bravo to the north, maintain VFR at 3000, departure nineteen fifteen, squawk 4245."
ATC: "Cessna 2SP, readback correct. Advise ground on point niner ready to taxi."
Pilot: "Cessna 2SP, roger."

Pilot: "St. Louis Ground, Cessna 172SP at Signature, ready to taxi."
ATC: "Cessna 172SP, St. Louis Ground, runway 30R at Juliet intersection departure, taxi via Foxtrot, Juliet."
Pilot: "Cessna 172SP, 30R at Juliet via Foxtrot and Juliet."

For us at STL, if you request VFR departure, I create a flight plan in the FDIO that either has your destination airport or a fix in Departure's airspace (we have one that's north and one that's south of the airport, but you won't necessarily go to it, nor do we issue your clearance that way; it's simply a way for the radar controller to know what direction to expect you to fly). If you're going to an airport within Departure's airspace and at one of their controlled altitudes, I'll give you a local code on the ARTS computer. We have a reserved set of beacon codes for flights that originate and terminate within our airspace. Otherwise, I create a flight plan in the FDIO that gives you a code that's usable by the Center.

For us, if you don't tell us initially, we'll ask. If, on your initial call, you don't give the ATIS, I'll advise you which one's current; if you don't tell me where you're parked, I'll ask; and if you don't tell me if you're ready to taxi or not, I'll ask. "Cessna 2SP, ATIS Delta is current; where are you parked, and are you ready to taxi?"

My advice: Please just listen to the frequency before you give your life story. We typically combine Clearance, Flight Data, and Metering, and sometimes it gets combined with Ground (which has three frequencies of its own), so just because you hear silence doesn't necessarily mean I'm not listening to someone on another frequency. With the way our system works, if you call me on a different frequency than one on which I'm listening, I end up hearing both of you talk, and then I have to give the frustrated, "Say again," while telling you to standby. If the frequency sounds busy, keep it simple. If it's a quiet Saturday, feel free to shoot the breeze. Smiley

 54 
 on: September 15, 2014, 06:51:55 PM 
Started by janlam01 - Last post by swa4678
"He's French; so uh... I wouldn't wanna piss him off. We will never win that battle - not here!"

That gave me a good chuckle.

In other news, WJA373 sat on an active runway (apparently the only active runway, mind you) hearing no transmissions on the tower frequency for 3 minutes and 10 seconds before they started questioning the state of the radios.  undecided

 55 
 on: September 15, 2014, 06:41:39 PM 
Started by janlam01 - Last post by janlam01
On Friday, WestJet 373 (a flight from Ottawa to Toronto) had a stuck mic after accepting a "line up and wait" instructions from the Tower for Runway 25. As a result, Porter 271 executed a missed approach and Air Canada Jazz 8049 looped around while on approach.

Porter 271: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/POE271/history/20140912/2255Z/CYTZ/CYOW
Air Canada Jazz 8049: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/JZA8049/history/20140912/2240Z/KBOS/CYOW

Attached is the audio clip.

 56 
 on: September 15, 2014, 05:23:50 PM 
Started by masterkeymaster - Last post by swa4678
Did the OP mention VFR traffic advisories in their simple, uncomplicated question?
Nope. Nor did he explicitly mention not wanting them.

 57 
 on: September 15, 2014, 05:15:51 PM 
Started by masterkeymaster - Last post by mik_ny
Did the OP mention VFR traffic advisories in their question?

 58 
 on: September 15, 2014, 01:16:13 PM 
Started by HappyBird - Last post by hayek
Quote
My question:  what happened after this?  Did you eventually get some kind of a "resume..." instruction?  "Resume own navigation", or "resume appropriate VFR altitudes", as mentioned earlier, or what?  How did they eventually release you from this altitude assignment?

Turns out, I starting having altimeter issues around this time and decided to turn around to return to my departure field, so I advised ATC of my intentions and went to 6500 for the opposite direction leg.  Had I not done so, I would have expected "Resume own navigation, altitude restriction cancelled" or some such formulation.

 59 
 on: September 15, 2014, 12:15:42 PM 
Started by masterkeymaster - Last post by swa4678
How about instead of two transmissions, just one ...
"Northeast Ground, Skyhawk 6611D at Atlantic, taxi with information delta. VFR departure southeast."
To me, that depends if I want flight following or not. If I do, I'd save the taxi request until later in anticipation of someone inputting a flight plan into the computers (and/or calling the TRACON/Enroute sector with a VFR proposal). After all, they're probably going to want to fill out a strip with my destination, aircraft type, and perhaps even requested cruising altitude (depending upon the airspace and how busy it is).

There's a balance between too many transmissions with too little content versus testing a controller's attentiveness (and hoping he's not on the landline, fake-laughing at the supervisor's lame joke, throwing paper airplanes at the trainee on the next position over, making the newbie get him more coffee, etc. etc.) by cramming 8 different pieces of information/requests into a single transmission.

Either way... definitely don't do the dumb request-to-make-a-request, e.g. "(ATC ID), (ACID), request." (To me, that's even more egregious than the conversational "Hey, can I ask you a question?" which always earns my sarcastic response of "You just did!")

 60 
 on: September 15, 2014, 12:00:11 PM 
Started by jeseong - Last post by swa4678
Hold up, everyone. Those aren't hold short lines. That's a new type of line I've been seeing at certain airports but cannot discern what they even mean. As far as I know it is not in the AIM -- we've checked.

I just checked, too, and I did find it in the AIM. See AIM ยง 2-3-5(c) - "Holding Position Markings for Taxiway/Taxiway Intersections" and the accompanying figure, FIG 2-3-17:



EDIT: Forgot to answer the OP's question... because the verbiage in the AIM states "When instructed by ATC 'hold short of (taxiway)...", it seems clear that the lines do not automatically imply a hold short instruction - it must be explicitly issued by ATC.

In other words, these lines don't do anything except help you to know where to stop if issued a normal "hold short" instruction.

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