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Author Topic: Rough approach/windshear leads to brilliant landing <video>  (Read 29625 times)
cessna157
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« on: February 07, 2008, 09:09:07 PM »

Here's a video of an E-145, where they were fighting it all the way to the ground, but the landing is absolutely perfect.

(video follows short commercial)

http://www.kare11.com/video/player.aspx?aid=61603&bw=
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CRJ7/CRJ9 F/O, Travel Agent
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« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2008, 10:26:33 PM »

Amazing video. They really earned their $50 for that flight. Im gonna raise a question now that I hope isnt flame bait. At any point does the approach look unstabilized where a go around should be initiated? Im kinda 50/50 when I saw the pitch changes. Cessna youre qualified to answer this. Did it just look more pronounced than it really was? Either way the pilot planted that sucker on the centerline and made it look fairly easy. You guys dont get enough credit for the days like that.
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athaker
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« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2008, 01:08:31 AM »

wow
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Jason
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« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2008, 06:52:48 AM »

At any point does the approach look unstabilized where a go around should be initiated? Im kinda 50/50 when I saw the pitch changes.

The pilot had positive aircraft control the whole way down, so I think he was committed to the approach and landing.  As I'm sure you could tell, it's somewhat difficult to tell how far out the airplane is from the video simply because of where it was taken from.  With enough airspeed and skill, one can certainly recover from the upward pitching moment the aircraft encountered.  The dangerous aspect about this scenario is that there could have been a downward microburst on short final causing obvious problems when you're only a few hundred feet above the touchdown zone.  It's a judgment call every pilot has to make based on all of the variables present.

Cessna, what say you?
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KSYR-pjr
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« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2008, 07:54:41 AM »

Now that's flying!  I'll bet the pilots had a great time on that approach.  Nicely done.
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Regards, Peter
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Panop
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« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2008, 09:51:04 AM »

I bet the passengers were less impressed with the approach - but no doubt very grateful for the landing!

Anyone know which airport it is?  Most likely somewhere in the UK as Flybe are based there but possibly somewhere else in Europe with similarly foul weather.
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KSYR-pjr
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« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2008, 10:02:24 AM »

I bet the passengers were less impressed with the approach -

Yes, no doubt coffee was spilling all over laps during that approach.
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Regards, Peter
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cessna157
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« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2008, 04:47:02 PM »

Sorry folks, currently out on a trip and been flying my buns off.

An approach that is not stable doesn't necessarily mean that it is unstable.  The definition of a stable approach, per my company, states: the aircraft must be in the landing configuration, be at and maintain the proper approach speed, be established on the proper vertical flight path, thrust set to provide positive thrust response to thrust change, maintain a vertical speed not less than 1000fpm, be lined up with the runway (unless the approach being used requires something different), below 100' HAT must be within the lateral edges of the runway, and must be in a position to land within the first 3000' or 1/3 or the runway.

So, according to the textbook difinition, this was a stable approach.  I would assume that they were operating the aircraft within the crosswind limitations of the aircraft (I'm not sure what the ERJ x-wind limitations are).  Then enters the question of safety.  These pilots were definitely wrestling this poor ERJ down final.  If things were to get out of hand, whether the wind were to shear so much as to airspeed would be a problem, or if you just get that gut feeling that it's not a good place to be, then a go around is obvious. 

So I guess what I'm saying is, in this case, everything was most likely legal and safe.  As professional pilots, we fly in calm in situations (which aren't always the easiest), and we fly in the worst weather possible.  It is our jobs to get the passengers to their destination as much as the weather, general conditions, and safety allows.  That means that there will be days, such as this video, that it'll take all the strength and adrenaline that we can muster to get the airplane back on the ground.  Unfortunately, with conditions like this, I'm sure the airsick bags were being utilized to their FULLEST extent, pun intended.
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shorty1
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« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2008, 05:08:05 PM »

that was a good job by the pilots.....how fast may those winds probably have been?
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bogman
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« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2008, 06:31:39 PM »

Anyone know which airport it is?  Most likely somewhere in the UK as Flybe are based there but possibly somewhere else in Europe with similarly foul weather.
The plane landed in Leeds-Bradford airport UK.
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bogman
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« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2008, 06:39:04 PM »

Sorry folks, currently out on a trip and been flying my buns off.




[/quote Does this mean that you have graduated..........................I am so proud grin rolleyes wink

What have the worst conditions that you ever landed in like ,was it anything like the video?I would safely say they ran out of sick bags and that was only in the cockpit grin grin grin


Take care

Bogman
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cessna157
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« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2008, 08:21:50 PM »

Oddly enough, the captain and flight attendants and I were just talking about that.  It's actually easier to land when there's a strong wind blowing you around.  We think its basically due to the fact that you've got to be on edge and keep your guard up.  When there's no wind, you get lazy, get the airplane over the runway and hold the nose up.  With lots of wind, you have to work it down to the ground.

Worst wind conditions?  I'd say its a tie for me.  About 2 months ago (when I was still in the 200) I was landing at YYZ with a 25 knot crosswind gusting to 32.  It was a really good landing, just had to work it down.  But last week, flying the 900 into AUS, we were just getting the snot beat out of us all the way down below about 12000.  It was a 40 degree crosswind at only 16, but there were occasional gusts to 40.  That's when you really have to watch it cause out in the middle of texas where there's no hills to stop the wind, it'll grab hold of you, then just drop you out of the sky.

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bogman
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« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2008, 06:09:14 AM »

Worst wind conditions?  I'd say its a tie for me.  About 2 months ago (when I was still in the 200) I was landing at YYZ with a 25 knot crosswind gusting to 32.  It was a really good landing, just had to work it down.  But last week, flying the 900 into AUS, we were just getting the snot beat out of us all the way down below about 12000.  It was a 40 degree crosswind at only 16, but there were occasional gusts to 40.  That's when you really have to watch it cause out in the middle of texas where there's no hills to stop the wind, it'll grab hold of you, then just drop you out of the sky.



Sounds really hairy ,I remember I was on a flight into EINN and we were thrown around a fair bit.It was a boeing 737-800 and I knew the first officer.He didnt know I was on the flight and when we landed I went to cabin to say hello.I am telling you what a sight ,both the captian and first officer were soaking in sweat.I said to him that it was a bit jumpy up there and the captin said he nearly diverted,there was a gale blowing outside,I cannot remember what he said the gusts were but they must have been bad if he wanted to divert.

I suppose the passengers do not know how hairy it can be at times,..............until they reach for the sickbag.

I am no pilot but from what I hear and see here ye really earn your money.Kepp up the good work ,and let us know how you are getting on with your new HEAVY METAL.


My scariest moment on a plane was when I was working in the old Soviet Union.I was on a plane, TU134, from Moscow to Leningrad.The doors were closed and up could hear the engines start up.Next thing total silience and darkness,the cockpit  opens and out comes the pilot with a flash lamp and a screwdriver.I dont know what he did but the lights came back on and he returned to the cockpit.But once a again everthing failed.Out he came once more did something and returned back.Next time it started and we flew to Moscow  which took 1 hour.All I wa sthinking was are we going to crash.I had six cans of beer in my bag and by the time the plane landed they were gone.

The Russian pilots were unreal the amount of pilots and flights I saw getting off flights  drunk was unreal {I worked in the airport so that is how I saw all this} and they would not think twice about it.



Bogman
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Panop
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« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2008, 09:10:16 AM »

If you enjoyed the video check this one out -

Some of them are test pilots DELIBERATELY seeking out crosswinds - they earn big money and deserve every cent!  Some of the others are at Wellington, New Zealand - the city is not called 'Windy Wellington' by all NZ'ers for nothing.

Scariest crosswind landing I ever experienced was as a passenger in a Twin Otter of Wideroes in Norway.  They had a third pilot (check pilot, trainee, I know not what he was) but because there is only room for two up front the extra crew member was in the front left passenger seat and the curtain or door (I don't recall) was kept wide open for the entire flight so he could observe everything and interact with the other two pilots via his headset and a long cable.   This gave the rest of us a great view also.

This was fun until we approached Tromso and the conditions became a bit rough.  An announcement was made that due to 40 knot crosswinds we would be delaying landing and possibly be diverting. 

The aircraft went a circuit at about 2000 feet and when on a short base leg the wind must have dropped a little and the captain, who was flying the sector, decided to go for it (maybe he had a hot date in downtown Tromso or hadn't packed his undies for a nightstop away or something).  We then went into a spectacular dive towards the runway (my guess is about 20 degrees but it seemed more!) and we turned short finals with the runway visible through the cockpit window at an alarming angle and getting bigger by the second. 

The centreline was nicely lined up but then at a few hundred feet a crosswind took us and, whilst we were still diving at a disturbing angle, the centreline and runway disappeared from view altogether and were replaced by grass and all I could fixate on was the captain literally wrestling the controls with all his strength whilst the supernumerary crewmember was almost out of his seat with concern (which I shared 100%).   The runway came back into sight about as we crossed the piano keys and just seconds later we made a very firm return to Mother Earth.

My connecting flight (due to be a DC-9 or Caravelle from memory) never made it in so I got stuck there for the night (without my luggage as the nice SAS people at Bodo had forgotten to load it because they were more interested looking at the King of Norway who transiting at the same time) and I discovered that our little Twin Otter was the only aircraft to make it in for the evening. 

Tough little aircraft and interesting flying that remains imprinted in my memory many years later!
« Last Edit: February 10, 2008, 09:23:50 AM by Panop » Logged
moto400ex
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« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2008, 06:57:34 PM »

The max crosswind component of the ERJ if I remeber correctly from an NTSB case I did presentation on was betweeen 30 and 35 knots according to the NTSB case.  Ill look again to make sure.  It probably didnt look half as bad from a pilots perspective as it did from the ground.  Always seems to look alot worse outside the cockpit.
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